Comments on: Has The Day Of Miracles Ceased?

By: Bret

Bret — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 00:14:18 +0000

Lisa,
You make a good point. Since we now live so much in the world and are not closed off from the wiles and cynical eyes of society, we may have less experiences such as these and/or not be willing to share them so openly. Maybe more from our time will come to light in the future if people are willing to write them down for posterity’s sake and/or for a time of less cynicism.
Justin,
I’ve read some of W. Wilson’s work but have not looked into their archives. Thank you for the contact!
J.
Ah! Another thing I have not thought of. With the lack of opposition (in some ways more then others) there may be less of a need for such experiences and/or help from heaven.

All very interesting interesting stuff…

By: J. Stapley

J. Stapley — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 19:45:59 +0000

This is a great post. I think one of the big disparities is in the tangible adversary. Joseph often talked about the adversary’s tangible reality and gave allot advice on the subject. I’ve read numerous 19th century accounts of people meeting together only to have the adversary come to the door or have an individual wrestle with a dark spirit.

You really don’t hear about that now days - either the experiences or the council.

By: Justin

Justin — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 19:44:49 +0000

Re contacts in this area, have you contacted Kristi Bell (kristi_bell at byu dot edu) of BYU’s William A. Wilson Folklore Archives? I’ve contacted her a few times regarding some items of Mormon folklore and found her to be helpful.

By: Lisa M

Lisa M — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 17:20:12 +0000

Perhaps experiences like these are so sacred that people don’t vocalize or discuss them, because we live in a day of cynicism.

The latter day pioneers were a large group of people, bonded together with a common cause, living amongst each other in some of the most dire circumstances. The experiences both the most inimately spiritual as well as the daily hardships couldn’t have been less than common knowledge, in many instances.

I would imagine same goes for the journaling. They recorded their experiences, testified of the truths they knew. The pioneers ENTIRE existance centered Heavenly Father, and their church. Their jobs, lifestyle, where they lived..ect. Everything.

How many of us can honestly, honestly say that?

Keeping these sacred experiences private might be a way of “cherishing” them. To not expose them to the world that would cast doubt, possibly mock, or where you would have to defend them.

By: Bret

Bret — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:32:43 +0000

Rusty,
Interesting indeed. One point I would make if that thread wasn’t so old is concerning the whole “americanization” of Utah and how Mormons are trying to fit in and not have “weird” experiences. I agree with that but we must also remember that the western peoples at that time (U.S., Canada and Europeans) were really the same way they were and were looking for the same things. They didn’t have a problem with speaking in tongues and such any more then the early saints did. Whereas, people in general nowadays find that a bit strange.

By: Bret

Bret — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:19:00 +0000

Steve,
You make a good point that I kind of struggled with when I made a few of these interviews. Some of them thought I was looking to collect spiritual experiences and were very open with things (a lot of which I left out of my essay because they seemed to personal and sacred for a college history class) while others knew I was looking for “folklore” so they gave me a bunch of stories they’d heard but mostly didn’t believe. So yeah, you never know what people are willing to disclose, or often what to take as folklore.
The old stuff I took from journal entries and from interviews written down by a collector of the time. The newer was all my personal interviews that I recorded.

By: Rusty Clifton

Rusty Clifton — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 07:57:56 +0000

Bret,
Go check out this link. Read the comments as well. It’s very interesting.

By: kristen j

kristen j — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 07:14:15 +0000

Interesting post. In the recent past I’ve thought about the casting out of demons written about in the New Testament. A lot of those descriptions sound similar to illnesses (especially mental illnesses)of today and I have wondered what that means for us today.

By: Clark

Clark — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 04:17:04 +0000

I’d second the point of Steve H. I’ve heard some pretty incredible stories (not all of which I believe). But I’m not sure the people involved would ever tell them to a folklorist.

I wonder if what is measured is the increasing sense in the church that one ought be careful sharing such experiences?

By: Steve H

Steve H — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 23:55:40 +0000

I’d be interested to know what our sources are for the visitations of heavenly messengers, etc. Are these journal accounts? Speeches? Letters? If they are generally private sources, then it would be hard to compare those to stories being told right now. We have no idea how widely circulated stories from former times were unless sources give some hint as to this.