Comments on: My Buddy, the Bishop http://www.nine-moons.com/2005/10/10/my-buddy-the-bishop/ Sat, 22 Nov 2008 11:54:40 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Chris Williams http://www.nine-moons.com/2005/10/10/my-buddy-the-bishop/#comment-1396 Chris Williams Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:16:52 +0000 http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=176#comment-1396 Rusty, thanks for posting this. I did not hear President Faust's talk, but I've heard the sentiment expressed before. When I was called to be bishop, I was shocked. Shocked, because I was young and didn't feel worthy of the calling. I didn't even feel like someone like me ever could be a bishop. I have always been and continue to be a religious doubter. Faith has never come easily to me. How could such a person with this and other problems become a bishop? In five years as bishop of the Park Slope Ward, I never felt disrespected by anything anyone ever said or did to me. Granted, I was never dunked, but even if I had been I think it would have been done in a spirit of friendship and camraderie. I think we too often put our church leaders <i>and</i> the offices they hold on pedestals. A bishop is still a man, even when he sits in the bishop's chair. A bishop brings to his experience his own humanity and weaknesses and history. And it is often because of those things that he is a good bishop. We respect bishops when we recognize their humanity and weaknesses. I think it is profoundly disrespectful of their humanity when we place them on pedestals and ask them to behave in ways that might feel unnatural or inauthentic. So I'm in agreement with you, Rusty. We should respect our bishops. But like you, I don't define that respect in the same way President Faust does. Rusty, thanks for posting this. I did not hear President Faust’s talk, but I’ve heard the sentiment expressed before.

When I was called to be bishop, I was shocked. Shocked, because I was young and didn’t feel worthy of the calling. I didn’t even feel like someone like me ever could be a bishop. I have always been and continue to be a religious doubter. Faith has never come easily to me. How could such a person with this and other problems become a bishop?

In five years as bishop of the Park Slope Ward, I never felt disrespected by anything anyone ever said or did to me. Granted, I was never dunked, but even if I had been I think it would have been done in a spirit of friendship and camraderie.

I think we too often put our church leaders and the offices they hold on pedestals. A bishop is still a man, even when he sits in the bishop’s chair. A bishop brings to his experience his own humanity and weaknesses and history. And it is often because of those things that he is a good bishop. We respect bishops when we recognize their humanity and weaknesses. I think it is profoundly disrespectful of their humanity when we place them on pedestals and ask them to behave in ways that might feel unnatural or inauthentic.

So I’m in agreement with you, Rusty. We should respect our bishops. But like you, I don’t define that respect in the same way President Faust does.

]]> By: don http://www.nine-moons.com/2005/10/10/my-buddy-the-bishop/#comment-1395 don Wed, 12 Oct 2005 03:23:22 +0000 http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=176#comment-1395 I keep thinking of several examples of Joseph Smith. He seemed to enjoy pulling sticks, getting down and dirty with the kids, jumping to the mark and other activities that some would certainly consider degrading to his office as prophet. I wonder what Pres. Faust's dad would say if he saw Joseph's actions? The office should be respected. When a person acts in his (her) calling they should be given the respect that office/calling deserves. But, lighten up! If Bishops etc. can't be themselves, have some fun, and goof off a bit sometimes (within reason and I think a dunk tank is within reason) then what a rotten job they're saddled with. If you don't do that people get the feeling that Bishops are better than the rest of us, they are high and mighty, they even become un-approachable. I've said enough, I think Faust was wrong. Rusty, you're right I mean "if" not "when". I keep thinking of several examples of Joseph Smith. He seemed to enjoy pulling sticks, getting down and dirty with the kids, jumping to the mark and other activities that some would certainly consider degrading to his office as prophet. I wonder what Pres. Faust’s dad would say if he saw Joseph’s actions?

The office should be respected. When a person acts in his (her) calling they should be given the respect that office/calling deserves.

But, lighten up! If Bishops etc. can’t be themselves, have some fun, and goof off a bit sometimes (within reason and I think a dunk tank is within reason) then what a rotten job they’re saddled with. If you don’t do that people get the feeling that Bishops are better than the rest of us, they are high and mighty, they even become un-approachable.

I’ve said enough, I think Faust was wrong.

Rusty, you’re right I mean “if” not “when”.

]]> By: J. Stapley http://www.nine-moons.com/2005/10/10/my-buddy-the-bishop/#comment-1394 J. Stapley Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:49:12 +0000 http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=176#comment-1394 It has been a while, but I seem to remember something in the CHI about Bishoprics not participating in bafoonery. I think that bafoonery changes with time and place. While some activities might be poor in somewhere, it might be proper elsewhere. It has been a while, but I seem to remember something in the CHI about Bishoprics not participating in bafoonery. I think that bafoonery changes with time and place. While some activities might be poor in somewhere, it might be proper elsewhere.

]]> By: Boris Max http://www.nine-moons.com/2005/10/10/my-buddy-the-bishop/#comment-1393 Boris Max Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:09:24 +0000 http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=176#comment-1393 The funny thing about that story is that Elder Faust's father seems to be criticizing his bishop. The bishop made a decision--pressure from ward members notwithstanding it was the Bishop's choice--and then Faust pere calls the bishop's actions degrading to the office the man holds. So, by implication, Faust's former bishop is a bad bishop because he is participating in something degrading. Or, Faust's former bishop is a bad bishop because he is so weak-willed that he lets a few boneheads talk him into degrading himself. But shouldn't we have our bishop's backs, even when we disagree with them? Or at least not tell our children that the bishop is disgracing himself? I am confused... The funny thing about that story is that Elder Faust’s father seems to be criticizing his bishop. The bishop made a decision–pressure from ward members notwithstanding it was the Bishop’s choice–and then Faust pere calls the bishop’s actions degrading to the office the man holds. So, by implication, Faust’s former bishop is a bad bishop because he is participating in something degrading. Or, Faust’s former bishop is a bad bishop because he is so weak-willed that he lets a few boneheads talk him into degrading himself. But shouldn’t we have our bishop’s backs, even when we disagree with them? Or at least not tell our children that the bishop is disgracing himself? I am confused…

]]> By: John Mansfield http://www.nine-moons.com/2005/10/10/my-buddy-the-bishop/#comment-1392 John Mansfield Tue, 11 Oct 2005 22:44:54 +0000 http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=176#comment-1392 The idea I got from Faust's talk was that the appeal of the dunking was the chance to knock the bishop down a peg, and that is a problematic attitude. The point of the dunking was the indignity of it. In our age of relentless casualness, we have a hard time believing that an aversion to creating undignified situations can be anything other than pompousness. The idea I got from Faust’s talk was that the appeal of the dunking was the chance to knock the bishop down a peg, and that is a problematic attitude. The point of the dunking was the indignity of it. In our age of relentless casualness, we have a hard time believing that an aversion to creating undignified situations can be anything other than pompousness.

]]> By: tb http://www.nine-moons.com/2005/10/10/my-buddy-the-bishop/#comment-1391 tb Tue, 11 Oct 2005 04:22:52 +0000 http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=176#comment-1391 My understanding of Pres Faust's comments was that initially it was all in good fun, and that his father didn't have a problem with it, but that the whole situation just went on a bit too long and got out of hand. My understanding of Pres Faust’s comments was that initially it was all in good fun, and that his father didn’t have a problem with it, but that the whole situation just went on a bit too long and got out of hand.

]]> By: Rusty http://www.nine-moons.com/2005/10/10/my-buddy-the-bishop/#comment-1390 Rusty Tue, 11 Oct 2005 04:13:17 +0000 http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=176#comment-1390 Don, You mean, "...<i>if</i> they fall." Don,
You mean, “…if they fall.”

]]> By: don http://www.nine-moons.com/2005/10/10/my-buddy-the-bishop/#comment-1389 don Tue, 11 Oct 2005 03:47:52 +0000 http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=176#comment-1389 I sometimes think we confuse respect for the Bishop and respect for the office/calling of a Bishop. When you talked about the respect you have for "how he comes to decisions, how he struggles with issues", that I think shows respect for the office as well as the man. Just because we become familiar with the person, doesn't mean we decrease our respect for him. It may very well lead to an increase in respect. Personally I think a Bishop should be more like Joseph and not a prude. Our current prophet certainly isn't disrespecting his office because he has a sense of humor. If we hold these guys up too high calling it respect, we forget they are men and we can have real problems when they fall. I sometimes think we confuse respect for the Bishop and respect for the office/calling of a Bishop. When you talked about the respect you have for “how he comes to decisions, how he struggles with issues”, that I think shows respect for the office as well as the man.

Just because we become familiar with the person, doesn’t mean we decrease our respect for him. It may very well lead to an increase in respect.

Personally I think a Bishop should be more like Joseph and not a prude. Our current prophet certainly isn’t disrespecting his office because he has a sense of humor.

If we hold these guys up too high calling it respect, we forget they are men and we can have real problems when they fall.

]]> By: Bret http://www.nine-moons.com/2005/10/10/my-buddy-the-bishop/#comment-1388 Bret Tue, 11 Oct 2005 01:49:48 +0000 http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=176#comment-1388 I had the same thoughts when I listened to that talk. How do we respect the office of Bishop properly? I think of Bishop Jensen in this case. Although he wasn't a good bishop to some people, to a lot of the youth, they thought he was great. He went to every youth function possible, knew more kids in the stake then I did, and had a playful banter relationship with most of us. Did we disrespect him or his office when we made fun of his rock hard, fat gut? Is it disrespect when he pretends to moon us after a raft trip? I think I agree with your last statement. As long as I am obedient to the counsel and/or commands from the Bishop and sustain him and those he's put into office, I'll be respecting him. I had the same thoughts when I listened to that talk. How do we respect the office of Bishop properly?
I think of Bishop Jensen in this case. Although he wasn’t a good bishop to some people, to a lot of the youth, they thought he was great. He went to every youth function possible, knew more kids in the stake then I did, and had a playful banter relationship with most of us. Did we disrespect him or his office when we made fun of his rock hard, fat gut? Is it disrespect when he pretends to moon us after a raft trip?

I think I agree with your last statement. As long as I am obedient to the counsel and/or commands from the Bishop and sustain him and those he’s put into office, I’ll be respecting him.

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