Comments on: You Know That “We Thank Thee, O God, For A Prophet” Isn’t About Prophets, Right?

By: cj douglass

cj douglass — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 19:40:12 +0000

This is going to bring out my smugg, pompous jerk side but this post is so last century. I remember having a big discussion about it back in deacons quorum. (nothing wrong with a little ribbing rusty) I was under the impression that it was only the GConference chorister who wasn’t in the loop. I’ll just say that I blame who ever titled the hymn more than anyone. It does seem to be common practice to just throw in the first line of a hymn as the title but how do you read the words and think “WTTOGFAP, that sounds good”?

By: Bret

Bret — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 05:50:55 +0000

I’ve always figured the prophet doesn’t mind this song because he knows what we know. It has very little to do with him.
As for the harsh treatment of those who reject our glad messege, no worse then over what half the psalms say about the same group of people. I’m almost always for more hellfire/damnation in any of our liturgy.

RT,

Hey! Long time no comment on this blog! Good to hear your analysis again:)

By: Nick Literski

Nick Literski — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 22:46:38 +0000

Early during President Hinckley’s administration, he publicly stated that he thinks of that song as referring to Joseph Smith, and *not* himself, when it is sung. Sorry I don’t have the source handy, but IIRC it was published in the Church News at the time. Seems to accord with Matt’s comment.

By: Kim Siever

Kim Siever — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 22:46:21 +0000

Just like “The spirit of God” isn’t really about the spirit at all, but about the last days.

By: Mark B.

Mark B. — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 22:34:30 +0000

Yes, Matt W. There is something powerful about that. It’s just too bad that that first line is followed by the rest of the song–mediocre music, trite words, nothing to do with the blessing of having a prophet.

By: Matt W.

Matt W. — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 20:06:43 +0000

Don’t know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but President Hinckley actually doesn’t like this song to be sung. My Wife was in charge of the music and choir for a devotional preceding the opening of the San Antonio Temple, and felt the members would want to sing to their prophet. Anyway, when she called the songs in, she was told “Absolutely not, He doesn’t like that sung to be sung to him.” (I paraphrase.) Apparantly, it is a humility issue for President Hinckley.

Oddly enough, my wife removed the song, at their request, only to happily see it added back into the program later.

It may not be the meaning of the whole song, but there is something powerful about singing the words “We thank the oh God for a prophet…” full blast with 10,000 other people while the prophet is there with you.

By: Ryan

Ryan — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 19:05:11 +0000

Singing this hymn to honor our current leader makes about as much sense as singing “Praise to the Man” for the same purpose would do.

So.. let me get this straight, you are contending that we should not use the phrase “We thank thee O, God for a prophet” as a respectful homage to.. a prophet?

All the hermeneutics aside, isn’t the sentiment here to sing a song that expresses our gratitude for our current living prophet and latter-day revelation, etc..

On top of that, why isn’t it appropriate to sing a song that includes all the blessings of the restoration (all of which, by the way are essentially worthless when a prophet is subtracted from the equation)

And the wicked who fight against Zion actually will be smitten at last.. as a careful reading of the scriptures will reveal.

In all your analysis don’t forget that there’s a forest somewhere amongst all them trees.

By: Rusty

Rusty — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:49:23 +0000

RT,
That is fascinating stuff.

By: RoastedTomatoes

RoastedTomatoes — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:28:46 +0000

Another funny thing about this song is that it was almost certainly originally written in reference to Joseph Smith, and not to prophets in general. The hymn was probably written before 1863, when its author (William Fowler) migrated from England to the US — and certainly before 1865, when Fowler died. So it dates from the Brigham Young period. But the practice of referring to the current president of the church as “prophet” didn’t arise until substantially after the Brigham Young era.

Brigham Young himself rejected direct comparisons between himself and “the Prophet,” Joseph Smith. For example, in an 1860 sermon, Young said:

The brethren testify that brother Brigham is brother Joseph’s legal successor. You never heard me say so. I say that I am a good hand to keep the dogs and wolves out of the flock. (Journal of Discourses 8:69

In fact, the phrase “Prophet, Seer, and Revelator” wasn’t even used at general conference sustainings during Brigham Young’s lifetime, except during 1855 and 57, basically during the Mormon Reformation (see this book, page 251, for documentation).

One popular hymn from the Joseph Smith era had the following first verse:

A church without a prophet is not the church for me;/It has no head to lead it, in it I would not be;/But I’ve a church not built by man,/Out from the mountain without hand,/A church with gifts and blessings, oh, that’s the church for me,/Oh, that’s the church for me, oh, that’s the church for me.

During the early years after Joseph Smith’s death, this hymn was used by one of Brigham Young’s rivals as Smith’s successor, James J. Strang, to embarrass Young. Strang, after all, claimed to be a prophet and produced extensive revelations and scriptural translations. Young did not. As a result, Young ended up banning the singing of the “church without a prophet” hymn at Nauvoo and among the Utah Saints. (See this book, pg. 134.) In the terminology of the day, after all, the Utah church didn’t have a prophet — it had apostles as leaders instead.

A content analysis of Church News discussions of church presidents suggests that the practice of referring to the current president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as “prophet” (rather than reserving the term for discussions of Joseph Smith or of figures from ancient scripture) dates to 1955 (see this book, page 363).

So, not only is “We Thank Thee, O God, for a Prophet” not about prophets — the first line, which does mention “a Prophet” was almost certainly intended to refer only to Joseph Smith, and not to any subsequent Mormon leader. Singing this hymn to honor our current leader makes about as much sense as singing “Praise to the Man” for the same purpose would do.

By: Mark B.

Mark B. — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 14:53:34 +0000

By George, you’re right, Bret. I hadn’t noticed that in all those dotted eighth and sixteenth notes.

And you too, Rusty. Here I thought I was the only one who had figured out the song–maybe we’re all afraid of going public with the news. But, not only is the song not about prophets, but it’s a pastiche of every trite and banal phrase about religion that you can imagine. Then to top it all off the last two verses end with the presumed judgment to be visited upon those who don’t believe as we do. I don’t know how we as a church can sign with a straight face, in bouncy dotted eighth/sixteenth notes, about our neighbors “surely be[ing] smitten at last.”

All the blessings of modern revelation–of prophets in our day–and that song is the best we can come up with??