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	<title>Comments on: Bountiful Harvests and Death Camps</title>
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		<title>By: annegb</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1034&#038;cpage=1#comment-90062</link>
		<dc:creator>annegb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 16:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well, if you&#039;re having trouble enduring &lt;em&gt;WELL&lt;/em&gt; I submit just endure the best you can.  Heck with the well stuff.

I&#039;m mad at God a lot of the time and He knows it, believe me.  For the unfairness in the world.  I&#039;m pretty sure that I had a hard time making up my mind about the plan and somewhere in my soul, that spirit that I was is very upset with the Lord and the way things have worked out for a lot of us.  Boy, oh boy, are we going to have a long talk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, if you&#8217;re having trouble enduring <em>WELL</em> I submit just endure the best you can.  Heck with the well stuff.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m mad at God a lot of the time and He knows it, believe me.  For the unfairness in the world.  I&#8217;m pretty sure that I had a hard time making up my mind about the plan and somewhere in my soul, that spirit that I was is very upset with the Lord and the way things have worked out for a lot of us.  Boy, oh boy, are we going to have a long talk.</p>
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		<title>By: MCQ</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1034&#038;cpage=1#comment-89954</link>
		<dc:creator>MCQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 21:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Steve, that&#039;s a very common refrain, but it strikes me as mostly irrelevant.  You can&#039;t answer specific experiences of individual answers to prayers by citing statistics.  

People who have experiences of divine intervention in their lives are not saying that God is consistent and predictable in doing so.  In fact, it&#039;s obvious that he is not.  If being a &quot;good person&quot; or an innocent child guaranteed what all would objectively agree were obvious advantages or &quot;blessings&quot; in this life, then, as was said earlier, life would not be a test, and faith would not be required.  

Obviously, it&#039;s much more complicated than that and blessings from God are often a very subjective experience, viewed primarily through the prism of faith.  I know that makes everything more difficult than if you could prove the existence or non-existence of God by citing a list of dubious statistics culled from anecdotal rumours, but it&#039;s what we&#039;re stuck with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, that&#8217;s a very common refrain, but it strikes me as mostly irrelevant.  You can&#8217;t answer specific experiences of individual answers to prayers by citing statistics.  </p>
<p>People who have experiences of divine intervention in their lives are not saying that God is consistent and predictable in doing so.  In fact, it&#8217;s obvious that he is not.  If being a &#8220;good person&#8221; or an innocent child guaranteed what all would objectively agree were obvious advantages or &#8220;blessings&#8221; in this life, then, as was said earlier, life would not be a test, and faith would not be required.  </p>
<p>Obviously, it&#8217;s much more complicated than that and blessings from God are often a very subjective experience, viewed primarily through the prism of faith.  I know that makes everything more difficult than if you could prove the existence or non-existence of God by citing a list of dubious statistics culled from anecdotal rumours, but it&#8217;s what we&#8217;re stuck with.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1034&#038;cpage=1#comment-89933</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 21:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>My strong belief is that God intervenes less in our world than most think.

My sense is he puts us her and asks us to follow commandments and then lets us deal with life.

Yet, there is this strong strain that good things happen to good people. Correspondingly, bad things happen to bad
/less faithful people.

And, both are demonstratively false.

Did the victims of the Holocaust get what they deserved?

Or, how come the rich &amp; corrupt (think Wall Street recently) don&#039;t have a meteorite drop on their head?

How come Utah has high bankruptcy rates and high levels of chemical support?

Why do children ever get cancer, diabetes or suffer from a host of other illnesses?

One could go on and on . . 

Rewards are in the here-after not the here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My strong belief is that God intervenes less in our world than most think.</p>
<p>My sense is he puts us her and asks us to follow commandments and then lets us deal with life.</p>
<p>Yet, there is this strong strain that good things happen to good people. Correspondingly, bad things happen to bad<br />
/less faithful people.</p>
<p>And, both are demonstratively false.</p>
<p>Did the victims of the Holocaust get what they deserved?</p>
<p>Or, how come the rich &amp; corrupt (think Wall Street recently) don&#8217;t have a meteorite drop on their head?</p>
<p>How come Utah has high bankruptcy rates and high levels of chemical support?</p>
<p>Why do children ever get cancer, diabetes or suffer from a host of other illnesses?</p>
<p>One could go on and on . . </p>
<p>Rewards are in the here-after not the here.</p>
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		<title>By: MCQ</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1034&#038;cpage=1#comment-89931</link>
		<dc:creator>MCQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 20:20:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>That makes sense Don.  I guess what you&#039;re saying is that eternal progression is something that has been going on previous to this life as well as being expected to continue afterward.  I think that&#039;s right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That makes sense Don.  I guess what you&#8217;re saying is that eternal progression is something that has been going on previous to this life as well as being expected to continue afterward.  I think that&#8217;s right.</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1034&#038;cpage=1#comment-89927</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 18:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1034#comment-89927</guid>
		<description>MCQ,
I don&#039;t equate an easy life because of &quot;blessings&quot; from the pre-mortal existence.  What we see as an easy life may not be a blessing at all.

I was more referring to the blessing because we have already developed the personality of obedience, or the lack of blessings because we have already developed a personality of pride.  I think we bring into the world much of who we are already and that can be a blessing or a cursing.  Our existence here is to overcome the weaknesses and strengthen the strengths.

I certainly don&#039;t want to imply that if we were a goodie-two-shoes there that we get a great life here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MCQ,<br />
I don&#8217;t equate an easy life because of &#8220;blessings&#8221; from the pre-mortal existence.  What we see as an easy life may not be a blessing at all.</p>
<p>I was more referring to the blessing because we have already developed the personality of obedience, or the lack of blessings because we have already developed a personality of pride.  I think we bring into the world much of who we are already and that can be a blessing or a cursing.  Our existence here is to overcome the weaknesses and strengthen the strengths.</p>
<p>I certainly don&#8217;t want to imply that if we were a goodie-two-shoes there that we get a great life here.</p>
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		<title>By: MCQ</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1034&#038;cpage=1#comment-89907</link>
		<dc:creator>MCQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 22:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Plus this whole discussion doesn’t touch on the blessing we get or don’t get because of our pre-mortal life’s experiences.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t personally believe in that, but if you do, I suppose it could help to explain some of the inequities that people are born into in this life.  For myself, I just think this life is unfair, and that we were never promised that it would be anything else.  If you start believing that some people are blessed here because they were more righteous in the pre-existence, then you are setting yourself up for some seriously abusive beliefs on the part of the oh-so-blessed, like they somehow deserve their situation and the poor/ill/disabled somehow deserve theirs.  I don&#039;t think so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Plus this whole discussion doesn’t touch on the blessing we get or don’t get because of our pre-mortal life’s experiences.</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t personally believe in that, but if you do, I suppose it could help to explain some of the inequities that people are born into in this life.  For myself, I just think this life is unfair, and that we were never promised that it would be anything else.  If you start believing that some people are blessed here because they were more righteous in the pre-existence, then you are setting yourself up for some seriously abusive beliefs on the part of the oh-so-blessed, like they somehow deserve their situation and the poor/ill/disabled somehow deserve theirs.  I don&#8217;t think so.</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1034&#038;cpage=1#comment-89904</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 20:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1034#comment-89904</guid>
		<description>Another aspect of blessing connected directly to obedience is that we get to judge others.  Like &quot;No wonder their kids turned out that way....considering what the parents did.&quot; It was fine to do that until we had some big bumps in the road with one of our children.

Plus this whole discussion doesn&#039;t touch on the blessing we get or don&#039;t get because of our pre-mortal life&#039;s experiences.

I&#039;m just glad that God is just....and it will all work out in the end....somewhere, sometime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another aspect of blessing connected directly to obedience is that we get to judge others.  Like &#8220;No wonder their kids turned out that way&#8230;.considering what the parents did.&#8221; It was fine to do that until we had some big bumps in the road with one of our children.</p>
<p>Plus this whole discussion doesn&#8217;t touch on the blessing we get or don&#8217;t get because of our pre-mortal life&#8217;s experiences.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m just glad that God is just&#8230;.and it will all work out in the end&#8230;.somewhere, sometime.</p>
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		<title>By: MCQ</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1034&#038;cpage=1#comment-89903</link>
		<dc:creator>MCQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 18:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yeah, I was responding more to LDG&#039;s comment.  This is a great post, David, and I think it&#039;s something we all struggle with to a certain extent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I was responding more to LDG&#8217;s comment.  This is a great post, David, and I think it&#8217;s something we all struggle with to a certain extent.</p>
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		<title>By: David T.</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1034&#038;cpage=1#comment-89902</link>
		<dc:creator>David T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 18:27:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>MCQ (#5),
Which is where the potency of patience comes into play (say that 3 times really fast). I agree with you. I&#039;m just telling you why it makes me uncomfortable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MCQ (#5),<br />
Which is where the potency of patience comes into play (say that 3 times really fast). I agree with you. I&#8217;m just telling you why it makes me uncomfortable.</p>
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		<title>By: MCQ</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1034&#038;cpage=1#comment-89899</link>
		<dc:creator>MCQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 16:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1034#comment-89899</guid>
		<description>If you got a bowl of chocolate pudding, or some other immediate, obvious and tangible benefit every time you obeyed, would you have greater trust in the Lord?  Maybe, but no faith.  

It&#039;s important to remember that this life is intended as a test.  It wouldn&#039;t be much of a test if it were set up in the way you describe.  The existence of God would be immediately provable and only the mentally ill would fail to obey all the commandments.  The only way that obedience and faith are tested is when we have to trust that blessings come from obedience even when they are not immediately obvious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you got a bowl of chocolate pudding, or some other immediate, obvious and tangible benefit every time you obeyed, would you have greater trust in the Lord?  Maybe, but no faith.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s important to remember that this life is intended as a test.  It wouldn&#8217;t be much of a test if it were set up in the way you describe.  The existence of God would be immediately provable and only the mentally ill would fail to obey all the commandments.  The only way that obedience and faith are tested is when we have to trust that blessings come from obedience even when they are not immediately obvious.</p>
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