Comments on: Paying For My Sins, Not So Important

By: Charlie

Charlie — Tue, 19 Jul 2005 07:10:27 +0000

So, what your saying is that, should I go to Hell and pay for my sins there, and I repented there, Jesus would lift me out of there?

So much for eternal suffering. *thumbs nose at Satan*.

By: kristen j

kristen j — Thu, 07 Jul 2005 03:16:09 +0000

Hey Don,
I’m picking up what your laying down. I agree that personal change is so important in the repentance process.

With out the refining process of remorse, anguish, etc. and eventually peace than repentance wouldn’t be as meaningful.

By: don

don — Wed, 06 Jul 2005 04:28:52 +0000

Geoff,
I’ve read your other parallel posts…interesting I always enjoy your posts and comments.

By: don

don — Wed, 06 Jul 2005 04:27:25 +0000

Geoff, We may be saying the same thing in different ways. To make the atonement valid for me I must repent – change – acknowledge to God my sins and ask that he forgive them. If I meet the criteria He forgives and pays for them.

But to me the payment part is the least important. If payment for sin was so important then I’d be ok if I paid for them myself, and that doesn’t work because there is no change and no forgiveness if I do the paying.

You say “…other than payment for sins and loosing the bands of death what is there?” To me there is forgiveness and personal change that comes thru repentence…and to me that’s what’s most important.

By: Geoff J

Geoff J — Wed, 06 Jul 2005 01:02:01 +0000

I’m not sure it makes sense to call forgiveness part of the atonement, Don. It seems to me that the forgiveness you describe is a direct result of the payment that you say is not your favorite part of the atonement. No payment = no forgiveness.

In fact, it seems to me that the forgiveness you describe will be found eventually for those that pay for their own sins in (temporary) hell. The problem for those folks is that they may or may not have repented (using their agency) and changed the character traits in them that caused them to commit the sins in the first place.

Anyway, as I posted recently in my parallel set of posts on this subject, the atonement seems to exclusively entail payment for sins and freedom from death (Jacob’s two-headed monster) The atonement overcomes sins by paying for them for us upon our repentance. Forgiveness only comes from God following that process. Therefore, to say that payment for sins is not your favorite part of the atonement makes no sense — other than payment for sins and loosing the bands of death what is there?