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	<title>Comments on: Should I Say Something to the Bishop?</title>
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	<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1232</link>
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		<title>By: mary</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1232&#038;cpage=2#comment-91779</link>
		<dc:creator>mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Sep 2010 04:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1232#comment-91779</guid>
		<description>My husband is a non-member and I&#039;m LDS.  When our daughter was born and blessed he stood in the circle with all the
other men--no, you do not need a temple recommend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My husband is a non-member and I&#8217;m LDS.  When our daughter was born and blessed he stood in the circle with all the<br />
other men&#8211;no, you do not need a temple recommend.</p>
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		<title>By: grego</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1232&#038;cpage=2#comment-91635</link>
		<dc:creator>grego</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Sep 2010 09:56:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1232#comment-91635</guid>
		<description>I thought this was in the CHI?  

If one is acting as voice, a temple recommend or special letter is required.  

Otherwise, no.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought this was in the CHI?  </p>
<p>If one is acting as voice, a temple recommend or special letter is required.  </p>
<p>Otherwise, no.</p>
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		<title>By: MCQ</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1232&#038;cpage=2#comment-91559</link>
		<dc:creator>MCQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 00:23:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1232#comment-91559</guid>
		<description>There are a lot of things that are not in the Bible that many churches do, Tony.  Because we don&#039;t adhere to the idea that the Bible is the complete and inerrant word of God, we couldn&#039;t care less whether it&#039;s in the Bible or not.  

The blessing and naming of babies is not an ordinance that is required for salvation, but it&#039;s a nice traditional ritual that many churches do in one form or another, and as rituals go, it&#039;s no more vain than most.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a lot of things that are not in the Bible that many churches do, Tony.  Because we don&#8217;t adhere to the idea that the Bible is the complete and inerrant word of God, we couldn&#8217;t care less whether it&#8217;s in the Bible or not.  </p>
<p>The blessing and naming of babies is not an ordinance that is required for salvation, but it&#8217;s a nice traditional ritual that many churches do in one form or another, and as rituals go, it&#8217;s no more vain than most.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1232&#038;cpage=1#comment-91554</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:03:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1232#comment-91554</guid>
		<description>I recommend you try to find any of this in the Bible.  Since its not there...it&#039;s all just polluting of what should be a joyous occasion by man&#039;s vain rituals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recommend you try to find any of this in the Bible.  Since its not there&#8230;it&#8217;s all just polluting of what should be a joyous occasion by man&#8217;s vain rituals.</p>
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		<title>By: MCQ</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1232&#038;cpage=1#comment-91415</link>
		<dc:creator>MCQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Aug 2010 04:06:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1232#comment-91415</guid>
		<description>Kari, I agree with that 100%, and I don&#039;t think it&#039;s heretical at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kari, I agree with that 100%, and I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s heretical at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Kari</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1232&#038;cpage=1#comment-91413</link>
		<dc:creator>Kari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Aug 2010 00:50:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1232#comment-91413</guid>
		<description>MCQ, permission has to be granted whether the baptism is local or out of the ward/stake boundaries. The bishop ultimately decides who may or may not perform an ordinance. Unfortunately, there is no clear criteria.

I guess I don&#039;t fully understand the real world difference of having a TR and &quot;being worthy to have one.&quot; I&#039;ve personally never met a Mormon who was &quot;worthy&quot; to have a TR who didn&#039;t have one. So, when we speak of folks who don&#039;t have a TR, it would seem to me that implicit in that discussion is that there is something that makes them &quot;unworthy.&quot; Maybe it&#039;s because they don&#039;t pay a full tithe. Maybe it&#039;s because they&#039;re not up to date on child support. Maybe they drink coffee. Maybe it&#039;s because they refuse a TR because they have issues with the temple. 

What makes one &quot;worthy&quot; to officiate in the priesthood? Don asks a similar question in his original post. Who gets to decide that question? If one drinks coffee does that preclude him from performing a baptism? How about doubts about the divinity of Christ or the veracity of the official version of the first vision? What about believing that polygamy wasn&#039;t instituted of God?

What sins are so great as to preclude one from exercising priesthood?

My opinion, which many may find heretical, is that once one has been given the priesthood, the question of worthiness should be left up to that person. If he feels worthy, he should be allowed. Ultimately the efficacy of a priesthood ordinance doesn&#039;t depend upon the &quot;worthiness&quot; of the person performing the ordinance. If that was so, the sacrament wouldn&#039;t have efficacy 90% of the time. (Hyperbole, I know, but you get my point.)

Joseph Smith taught that despite being drunk when he uttered the curse on Ham and his lineage, God upheld that curse because he honored Noah&#039;s priesthood. Is that teaching applicable today?

A real world example: The stake patriarch in the stake of my youth was convicted of child molestation (of his granddaughters). In the investigation it came out that he had molested his own daughters when they were children. When asked about the efficacy of the patriachal blessings he bestowed during the time he was sexually molesting children, members of the stake were told it was unnecessary to receive another patriachal blessing. 

So if God will honor the curse of a drunken man or the patriachal blessing of a child molester, I can&#039;t imagine a sin that would keep Him from honoring any priesthood ordinance, no matter the &quot;worthiness&quot; of the officiator. And requiring a bishop to ask any question other than &quot;Are you worthy?&quot;, &quot;Are you comfortable with God to perform this ordinance?&quot;, or even simply &quot;Do you hold the priesthood required for this ordinance?&quot; seems pointless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MCQ, permission has to be granted whether the baptism is local or out of the ward/stake boundaries. The bishop ultimately decides who may or may not perform an ordinance. Unfortunately, there is no clear criteria.</p>
<p>I guess I don&#8217;t fully understand the real world difference of having a TR and &#8220;being worthy to have one.&#8221; I&#8217;ve personally never met a Mormon who was &#8220;worthy&#8221; to have a TR who didn&#8217;t have one. So, when we speak of folks who don&#8217;t have a TR, it would seem to me that implicit in that discussion is that there is something that makes them &#8220;unworthy.&#8221; Maybe it&#8217;s because they don&#8217;t pay a full tithe. Maybe it&#8217;s because they&#8217;re not up to date on child support. Maybe they drink coffee. Maybe it&#8217;s because they refuse a TR because they have issues with the temple. </p>
<p>What makes one &#8220;worthy&#8221; to officiate in the priesthood? Don asks a similar question in his original post. Who gets to decide that question? If one drinks coffee does that preclude him from performing a baptism? How about doubts about the divinity of Christ or the veracity of the official version of the first vision? What about believing that polygamy wasn&#8217;t instituted of God?</p>
<p>What sins are so great as to preclude one from exercising priesthood?</p>
<p>My opinion, which many may find heretical, is that once one has been given the priesthood, the question of worthiness should be left up to that person. If he feels worthy, he should be allowed. Ultimately the efficacy of a priesthood ordinance doesn&#8217;t depend upon the &#8220;worthiness&#8221; of the person performing the ordinance. If that was so, the sacrament wouldn&#8217;t have efficacy 90% of the time. (Hyperbole, I know, but you get my point.)</p>
<p>Joseph Smith taught that despite being drunk when he uttered the curse on Ham and his lineage, God upheld that curse because he honored Noah&#8217;s priesthood. Is that teaching applicable today?</p>
<p>A real world example: The stake patriarch in the stake of my youth was convicted of child molestation (of his granddaughters). In the investigation it came out that he had molested his own daughters when they were children. When asked about the efficacy of the patriachal blessings he bestowed during the time he was sexually molesting children, members of the stake were told it was unnecessary to receive another patriachal blessing. </p>
<p>So if God will honor the curse of a drunken man or the patriachal blessing of a child molester, I can&#8217;t imagine a sin that would keep Him from honoring any priesthood ordinance, no matter the &#8220;worthiness&#8221; of the officiator. And requiring a bishop to ask any question other than &#8220;Are you worthy?&#8221;, &#8220;Are you comfortable with God to perform this ordinance?&#8221;, or even simply &#8220;Do you hold the priesthood required for this ordinance?&#8221; seems pointless.</p>
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		<title>By: MCQ</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1232&#038;cpage=1#comment-91393</link>
		<dc:creator>MCQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 19:59:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1232#comment-91393</guid>
		<description>Kari, there are always permissions required to perform ordinances out of ward boundaries, but your bishop is out of line if he is refusing permission to baptize based solely on someone not having a TR.  Again, however, that is very different from someone who is not WORTHY of a TR.  Those are two very different things.

And again, baptisms can be performed by Aaronic priesthood members who do not have TRs, so it is not possible to make holding a recommend a prerequisite for performing a baptism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kari, there are always permissions required to perform ordinances out of ward boundaries, but your bishop is out of line if he is refusing permission to baptize based solely on someone not having a TR.  Again, however, that is very different from someone who is not WORTHY of a TR.  Those are two very different things.</p>
<p>And again, baptisms can be performed by Aaronic priesthood members who do not have TRs, so it is not possible to make holding a recommend a prerequisite for performing a baptism.</p>
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		<title>By: Kari</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1232&#038;cpage=1#comment-91392</link>
		<dc:creator>Kari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1232#comment-91392</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;But there is no interview required to baptize your own children, even if you don’t have a temple recommend. So you cannot be prohibited from baptizing your children based simply on the fact that you do not have a temple recommend. - MCQ #42&lt;/blockquote&gt;

MCQ, I don&#039;t think this statement is wholly correct. While no interview is formally required by church policy, permission still has to be granted by the bishop. (When our son was baptised out of the ward boundaries, we had to get permission from our home bishop and the the bishop in the area where the baptism took place.)

I know many bishops who would call a brother in and question why he doesn&#039;t have a TR and if he&#039;s worthy to baptize before granting permission. And as I stated, my current bishop feels that if you&#039;re not worthy of a TR, then your not worthy to perform an ordinance that requires his permission.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>But there is no interview required to baptize your own children, even if you don’t have a temple recommend. So you cannot be prohibited from baptizing your children based simply on the fact that you do not have a temple recommend. &#8211; MCQ #42</p></blockquote>
<p>MCQ, I don&#8217;t think this statement is wholly correct. While no interview is formally required by church policy, permission still has to be granted by the bishop. (When our son was baptised out of the ward boundaries, we had to get permission from our home bishop and the the bishop in the area where the baptism took place.)</p>
<p>I know many bishops who would call a brother in and question why he doesn&#8217;t have a TR and if he&#8217;s worthy to baptize before granting permission. And as I stated, my current bishop feels that if you&#8217;re not worthy of a TR, then your not worthy to perform an ordinance that requires his permission.</p>
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		<title>By: Manuel</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1232&#038;cpage=1#comment-91391</link>
		<dc:creator>Manuel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1232#comment-91391</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;In my experience, bishops are anxious to give less active men an opportunity to exercise their priesthood.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Not all bishops are created equal.  That has also been my experience, but every now and then I have also witnessed some do the opposite to &quot;send a message&quot; of &quot;look at what you are missing for being inactive.&quot;

It all depends on the Bishop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>In my experience, bishops are anxious to give less active men an opportunity to exercise their priesthood.</p></blockquote>
<p>Not all bishops are created equal.  That has also been my experience, but every now and then I have also witnessed some do the opposite to &#8220;send a message&#8221; of &#8220;look at what you are missing for being inactive.&#8221;</p>
<p>It all depends on the Bishop.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen M (Ethesis)</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1232&#038;cpage=1#comment-91378</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen M (Ethesis)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=1232#comment-91378</guid>
		<description>Including an apostle talking about how people should go to their fathers, not general authorities for things like this and how if the one young man&#039;s father had not been an elder, he would have ordained him on the spot so he could ordain his son.

Interesting perspectives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Including an apostle talking about how people should go to their fathers, not general authorities for things like this and how if the one young man&#8217;s father had not been an elder, he would have ordained him on the spot so he could ordain his son.</p>
<p>Interesting perspectives.</p>
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