Comments on: Departing the Text: Changes to Elder Packer’s Conference Talk – UPDATED

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By: MCQ

MCQ — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 07:25:03 +0000

KG, that’s not strictly true. the story I got, from people who know, was that changes were recommended by others which were then agreed to by Elder Packer.

So the impetus for the changes came from others, but the changes were in the end authorized by Elder Packer. Would the talk have been changed if Elder Packer did not agree? We may never know, but my guess is yes, if there was otherwise unanimity on the need for the changes.

By: KG

KG — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 05:48:03 +0000

The only person who might have authorized any changes to the written version of the talk would have been Elder Packer himself. There are no outsiders pulling strings, here.

By: AJ

AJ — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 18:51:37 +0000

MCQ, there was an argument over at one of the lds forums over the term homosexual. One man uses it to describe himself and that offended another man who (I think) preferred SSA. They had to hash it out a little.
There have been other threads discussing the terms as well. I think the church prefers the term SSA but of course that does not mean that every individual within the church agrees with that.
Anyway, I just wanted to clarify that I really have run into people offended by those terms.
I can see why you would want to go by majority rules on this site,though. I am really only a random visitor anyway.

By: MCQ

MCQ — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 18:31:22 +0000

AJ, the difference is that you don’t really have to live with the term “homophobic” being applied to you every day of your life (I hope), whereas gay people who are out have to self-identify as something and have to engage in discussions about that label.

Because of that, the label that is used to describe them does matter. You’re right that anyone might be offended by a particular term, but have you really run into people who are offended at being described as “gay” or “homosexual?” That would be unusual.

The only reason I was suggesting SSA as a possibility was to differentiate between attraction and behavior. But since it is offensive to some, I agreed to drop it, so we won’t be using it on this thread any more. Thanks for your cooperation.

By: AJ

AJ — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 17:16:28 +0000

I have some friends over at the LDS sites for Gay/SSA/? whatever-term-you-like forums. They are good people and do offer one another friendship and support. They have also been great to talk to me and answer questions that I had concerning my friends and family. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that at all. Plus, there is Evergreen and other retreats etc. that people participate in. From what I have read, some people really benefit from these meetings and others don’t like them at all.

I think it is getting silly to argue over terminology. Anyone can find just about anything offensive. I know some Mormons who are offended by the word gay and some offended by SSA. I find SSA best and do not feel it is offensive. Gay is a word that has had it’s meaning changed with every generation. I think that is rather annoying.

I happen to think the word homophobic is offensive. I don’t think someone is scared of homosexuality just because they don’t agree with the political mindset of gay activists. To me, it is just another hate term meant to caste others as psychologically disturbed. I can argue against it for many of the same reasons that the term SSA can be argued against.

The fact is that none of these terms are going to go away. Those who use the term homophobic don’t really care if it offends me. And while I really don’t like to hurt anyone’s feelings, no matter what terms I happen to use, there will be somebody who doesn’t like it.

By: Silus Grok

Silus Grok — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 18:26:18 +0000

* smacks forehead *

I wasn’t even thinking about my moniker — I was trying to figure out what I had said in my comments that rang out as a Heinlein reference. I thought, perhaps, that you’d zeroed in on my quip about the “oubliette of history”. Anyway … yes; I know that “grok” is a Heinleinism — but I borrowed it from the software development world.

By: Torrey

Torrey — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 08:42:05 +0000

@Silus; Robert Heinlein wrote “Stranger in a Strange Land”, which some have labelled an ‘escapist’ sci-fi story that was actually quite thought provoking. He most likely invented the word, “grok”, because it plays an important part in his novel. Some others believe that it may have Balkan Slavic roots. I personally don’t know. Your selection of it as an online surname is indeed an unusual coincidence, if you are unaware of the book and its message.
I concur that we are spoken to in terms that we can understand, and if our minds are not prepared to accept and comprehend more of the fullness of the reality of eternal life, then the divine knowledge will be kept from us until such time that we attain that level consciousness and open our minds to receive it. It is conceivable that our mortal opinions and prejudices would create a barrier within ourselves to receiving any such personal revelation(s) for our own enlightenment.

By: Silus Grok

Silus Grok — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 19:23:52 +0000

@Torrey: I’m fairly certain that the hosts of Heaven are doing what they can to speak to us in terms we understand … and when we finally see the Holy City, it will be a strange and wondrous place in very deed. As for the Dune/Stranger reference, I’m afraid it’s imagined — though what an imagination! I’d love to know what my subconscious mind dug up … what did I say?

By: Torrey

Torrey — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 18:55:19 +0000

Apologies, Silas, the reference is actually from Heinlein’s “Stranger in a Strange Land”, for which I still have a deep affection. Standing out too long in this southern Utah sun is burning out my cerebral circuitry!