No procreation going on if the semen goes anywhere but a vagina. Even pre and extra marital intercourse w/ contraception complies w/ the proclamation (but not with the whole of LDS teaching).

To use the Proclamation as a club against gays is a stretch only a BRM or BKP would attempt to pull off on the GA groupie types.

: )

What can the LDS church offer gays that other cannot? Well, the fulness of the Gospel, for one… and priesthood authority, the benefits of membership in the Kingdom… gosh: everything.

When I taught smokers on my mission, it was my desire that they be touched by the Spirit and moved to do what was necessary to join the Church. I can’t really expect anything different from gay couples.

The difference, of course, is that I hold-out hope that the Lord, in revealing more on the subject, permits greater liberty for gays and lesbians based on the greater light and truth we’re finally ready for.

You say that you would share the gospel with other gay friends, but that you would expect that they (even if long-partnered) give up their sexual relationships. “Families are forever” is a selling point for heterosexual families when it comes to the church. What can the LDS church offer gays that any other church cannot?

In the end, I think that the Atonement will make up for my short-comings.

I don’t, however, have any idea how that will happen.

Doctrinally, we are told that the same sociality which exists here will exist on the other side, so I doubt my orientation will change… that said, choices are made using available data, and it’s the available data that will most-certainly change.

So who knows?

If you believe that you will somehow magically change orientations, marry a woman and live happily in the eternities, more power to you. If you believe that you will be partnered, married and sealed to another man in the hereafter, where do you get this idea?

As for kissing being sexual… that’s a tough one. But whatever the determination, it is _just_ as sexual for heteros kissing as it is for me — unless I’m just really that much better at it.

:)

Noname… Yup, but he’s not active. Shame really.

Tess… Thank you. That is very very sweet.

I hope you know that for every person voicing disapproval, there are more people who love you and who respect the difficult choices you are making. Whether that is to stay in the church and remain celibate, or to leave the church and start over again.

Thank you very much for sharing your experiences with us here.

The church stresses sealings of families consisting of a man, woman and children (or potential children) but is mute on same sex pairings (if not outrifht against them).

It would seem that if there is to be a “place” in the plan of “happiness” for gays, it would be in the lower of the three kingdoms-within-the-highest-kingdom or ministering angel status. It would seem that a gay person could progress no further until his/her orientation changed.

Does this bother you about the LDS theology? Does(n’t) it seem discriminatory, contrived and implausible? Would this mean that all gays everywhere are expected to either turn straight or be predestined NOT to live with Heavenly Father and Jesus forever?

Finally, it would seem as per LDS theology that all gays are expected to be lifelong celibates. While single heterosexuals can and do remain celibate for life if necessary, their numbers are very, very small. Yet all gays are supposedly expected to abstain.

And even kissing is sexual. Apparently, non-passionate kisses are the only kinds of affection gays are expected by the Lord to exchange. Doesn’t seem very plausible to me.

Very true. Whether one can heed the Spirit and obey the true and living God or not has true consequences.

I’ve been paying attention to Church history and the incredible sacrifices people were asked to make and it has given me pause.