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	<title>Comments on: Amazon Women in the Book of Mormon!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.nine-moons.com/?feed=rss2&#038;p=186" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=186</link>
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		<title>By: Bret</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=186&#038;cpage=1#comment-1950</link>
		<dc:creator>Bret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Nov 2005 07:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=186#comment-1950</guid>
		<description>A whole other post could be written on &quot;Moroni the propagndist&quot; and/or on how much Moroni&#039;s handling of the army and government would fit into our Constitutional rights.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A whole other post could be written on &#8220;Moroni the propagndist&#8221; and/or on how much Moroni&#8217;s handling of the army and government would fit into our Constitutional rights.</p>
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		<title>By: don</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=186&#038;cpage=1#comment-1949</link>
		<dc:creator>don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2005 08:29:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=186#comment-1949</guid>
		<description>Josue, it does show a lot about Moroni&#039;s personality. Something that I think &quot;proves&quot; the BOM is all the little things like this. Moroni, the big hero, actually gets mad, agrees to exchange prisoners, then doesn&#039;t like Ammoron&#039;s reply gets mad and changes his mind and then justifies changing it...who can make these things up...it&#039;s true!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josue, it does show a lot about Moroni&#8217;s personality. Something that I think &#8220;proves&#8221; the BOM is all the little things like this. Moroni, the big hero, actually gets mad, agrees to exchange prisoners, then doesn&#8217;t like Ammoron&#8217;s reply gets mad and changes his mind and then justifies changing it&#8230;who can make these things up&#8230;it&#8217;s true!</p>
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		<title>By: Josue</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=186&#038;cpage=1#comment-1948</link>
		<dc:creator>Josue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2005 03:20:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=186#comment-1948</guid>
		<description>Mainly I just like it because it is one example of Moroni saying bold, crazy things when he gets angry.  Things that enraged people or inspired people, depending on their perspective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mainly I just like it because it is one example of Moroni saying bold, crazy things when he gets angry.  Things that enraged people or inspired people, depending on their perspective.</p>
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		<title>By: josue</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=186&#038;cpage=1#comment-1947</link>
		<dc:creator>josue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2005 03:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=186#comment-1947</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I don&#039;t think he is talking about arming the prisoners here, either, but about raising more warriors.  But I also think the statement is kind of a bluff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I don&#8217;t think he is talking about arming the prisoners here, either, but about raising more warriors.  But I also think the statement is kind of a bluff.</p>
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		<title>By: don</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=186&#038;cpage=1#comment-1946</link>
		<dc:creator>don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 21:10:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=186#comment-1946</guid>
		<description>Josue,
Maybe the threat to arm the women and children shows that they were in fact a threat. They knew how to fight, they were warriors. Was Moroni talking about arming the prisoners? I don&#039;t think so, I think he was referring to raising even more warriors to fight against the Lamanites. I don&#039;t think he had his plan for getting the guards drunk and all that at the time of this first epistle. He didn&#039;t get mad and devise the plan until after Ammoron wrote back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josue,<br />
Maybe the threat to arm the women and children shows that they were in fact a threat. They knew how to fight, they were warriors. Was Moroni talking about arming the prisoners? I don&#8217;t think so, I think he was referring to raising even more warriors to fight against the Lamanites. I don&#8217;t think he had his plan for getting the guards drunk and all that at the time of this first epistle. He didn&#8217;t get mad and devise the plan until after Ammoron wrote back.</p>
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		<title>By: josue</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=186&#038;cpage=1#comment-1945</link>
		<dc:creator>josue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=186#comment-1945</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure if you just refrained from mentioning this in your post or if you didn&#039;t notice it, but in Alma 54:12 Moroni explicitly threatens to arm the women and children if there is no exchange of a Nephite family for each Lamanite prisoner:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;And behold, if ye do not this, I will come against you with my armies; yea, even I will arm my women and my children, and I will come against you, and I will follow you even into your own land, which is the land of our first inheritance; yea, and it shall be blood for blood, yea, life for life; and I will give you battle even until you are destroyed from off the face of the earth.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m thinking maybe this is kind of like &quot;If you are going to treat our women and children as if they are a threat, as if they are warriors, then maybe we will show you what a threat they are.&quot;  Maybe it is an insult, (i.e. even our children can take you out).  Whatever it is, this comment is clearly meant to be shocking and provocative, which would indicate that arming women and children is something not usually done.  So I&#039;d be surprised if the women were really formally trained as warriors, but who knows?  Its not entirely out of the question.

Also, maybe the reason the Lamanites would hold the women and children prisoner is because they were trying to bring the Nephites into subjection/slavery.  Maybe these prisoners were the beginnings of such enslavement.  Women probably had many desirable work skills which the men did not have.  And if you have families they will breed future generations of slaves for you. There are two separate situations described in the Book of Mosiah where Nephites are enslaved by Lamanites, so there is a precedent for slavery as well.  The Lamanite tradition was always that they were the rightful rulers of the people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure if you just refrained from mentioning this in your post or if you didn&#8217;t notice it, but in Alma 54:12 Moroni explicitly threatens to arm the women and children if there is no exchange of a Nephite family for each Lamanite prisoner:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;And behold, if ye do not this, I will come against you with my armies; yea, even I will arm my women and my children, and I will come against you, and I will follow you even into your own land, which is the land of our first inheritance; yea, and it shall be blood for blood, yea, life for life; and I will give you battle even until you are destroyed from off the face of the earth.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m thinking maybe this is kind of like &#8220;If you are going to treat our women and children as if they are a threat, as if they are warriors, then maybe we will show you what a threat they are.&#8221;  Maybe it is an insult, (i.e. even our children can take you out).  Whatever it is, this comment is clearly meant to be shocking and provocative, which would indicate that arming women and children is something not usually done.  So I&#8217;d be surprised if the women were really formally trained as warriors, but who knows?  Its not entirely out of the question.</p>
<p>Also, maybe the reason the Lamanites would hold the women and children prisoner is because they were trying to bring the Nephites into subjection/slavery.  Maybe these prisoners were the beginnings of such enslavement.  Women probably had many desirable work skills which the men did not have.  And if you have families they will breed future generations of slaves for you. There are two separate situations described in the Book of Mosiah where Nephites are enslaved by Lamanites, so there is a precedent for slavery as well.  The Lamanite tradition was always that they were the rightful rulers of the people.</p>
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		<title>By: don</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=186&#038;cpage=1#comment-1944</link>
		<dc:creator>don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Nov 2005 21:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=186#comment-1944</guid>
		<description>My source on age...bottom of the page dates, subtract one date from the other.
You&#039;re right nice horses!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My source on age&#8230;bottom of the page dates, subtract one date from the other.<br />
You&#8217;re right nice horses!</p>
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		<title>By: Bret</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=186&#038;cpage=1#comment-1943</link>
		<dc:creator>Bret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Nov 2005 02:14:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=186#comment-1943</guid>
		<description>Don,
Are those ages verifiable? Where do we get a source on something like that?
Anyway, haven&#039;t you seen the painting? They&#039;ve got to be at least 20 or so from the looks of that&gt;;p Plus they must have bred some dang good horses to be that large!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don,<br />
Are those ages verifiable? Where do we get a source on something like that?<br />
Anyway, haven&#8217;t you seen the painting? They&#8217;ve got to be at least 20 or so from the looks of that&gt;;p Plus they must have bred some dang good horses to be that large!</p>
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		<title>By: don</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=186&#038;cpage=1#comment-1942</link>
		<dc:creator>don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Nov 2005 21:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=186#comment-1942</guid>
		<description>Side point: Moroni armed the children as well as the women. How young were the sons of Helaman? Date wise it looks like they could have been as young as 12-15. How old was Helaman at this time? To call these kids his &quot;sons&quot; he&#039;d need to be 35-40?
What about children fighting, when were they old enough to fight?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Side point: Moroni armed the children as well as the women. How young were the sons of Helaman? Date wise it looks like they could have been as young as 12-15. How old was Helaman at this time? To call these kids his &#8220;sons&#8221; he&#8217;d need to be 35-40?<br />
What about children fighting, when were they old enough to fight?</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Jacobsen</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=186&#038;cpage=1#comment-1941</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Jacobsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Nov 2005 20:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=186#comment-1941</guid>
		<description>Interesting theory, but I&#039;m not convinced.  In addition to the comments already made, if the women and children really were trained soldiers, then that deflates Moroni&#039;s argument about trading one Lamanite for an entire Nephite family.  Doesn&#039;t seem fair, unless Moroni is trying to catch Ammoron by &#039;guile&#039;.  Then again, maybe that&#039;s why Ammoron didn&#039;t fall for Moroni&#039;s proposal, even though he didn&#039;t mention that as a reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting theory, but I&#8217;m not convinced.  In addition to the comments already made, if the women and children really were trained soldiers, then that deflates Moroni&#8217;s argument about trading one Lamanite for an entire Nephite family.  Doesn&#8217;t seem fair, unless Moroni is trying to catch Ammoron by &#8216;guile&#8217;.  Then again, maybe that&#8217;s why Ammoron didn&#8217;t fall for Moroni&#8217;s proposal, even though he didn&#8217;t mention that as a reason.</p>
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