Comments on: What’s Wrong With God-Making?

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 17 May 2006 08:43:01 +0000

More like what is wrong with all you people? Joseph Smith was a false prophet, simple as that. His prophecies never came true and yet he still believed that he was better than Jesus and his apostles. You believe that one day you will die and become a god of your own planet with your multiple wives. Why then would you believe that God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are 3 separate beings ruling over Earth? There’s a contradiction in itself. Who did Joseph Smith think he was, creating a cult that sought to prove the false teaching of the Bible which has historical truth and archeological proof to back up its claims. Joseph Smith’s Book-o-Mormon came almost 2000 years after Jesus, and should in theory be proved more easily, when in fact none of the places described in its scripts has been found to exist. Mormonism is not a Christian religion, it is a widespread cult which has no truth. Mormonism keeps people in line, maybe thats not a bad thing, but that’s all it is. Joseph Smith wasn’t a martyr, he died in a gun fight. Im a Christian and your religion is false, and I say that with not a speck of guilt on my heart in believing that I am going to go to hell for that. As I said at the beginning, Joseph Smith was a false prophet, nothing more, you should have figured that out by now that none of his prophecies came true. Did Jesus return in the 1890s? NO. Time for all you mormons to come out of your cult that was created by generations of people having hoards of children, because that was the main reason for the spread of the religion, brainwashing of you. Open up your minds to everything else. You blame any opposition to your religion as being evil, if your religion is true you have nothing to worry about,(which it’s not). Dinosaur bones weren’t put on earth by the devil. This is absolutely obsurd.

By: annegb

annegb — Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:39:39 +0000

Kristen, the first time I heard that concept was when Truman Madsen spoke at a Special Interest Conference in Vegas. He was talking from a book he wrote, The Highest in Us, and he said he’d asked some Christian ministers who were debating our doctrine: “why would you want your children to be eternally inferior? Don’t we all want our children to do better than us?” I was mesmerized and suddenly hopeful.

By: Bret

Bret — Fri, 14 Apr 2006 22:51:29 +0000

I don’t see anything the church or the general authorities doin as distancing from this doctrine. Numerous quotes from the prophets and even whole lessons on this are found in the pristhood/RS manuals. Sunday shool lessons don’t shy away from it and then as Rusty said, the temple virtually revolves around it. The only time we may appear to be distancing from it is in public. Even when this happens I would say church leaders are trying more to avoid offending our neighbors or “give them meat before milk” then acting like we don’t believe it as much anymore.

Chris,

Good point. Everyone who believes in a Supreme Being are going to have a theology of God that fits into their beliefs rather well.

By: john f.

john f. — Fri, 14 Apr 2006 22:29:01 +0000

And either God loves us that much or there is no god.

Well said.

By: Rob Johnson

Rob Johnson — Fri, 14 Apr 2006 22:17:08 +0000

Rusty,

The doctrine of deification is a belief that Mormons share with orthodox Christianity. As you may know, the great Christian philosopher, C.S. Lewis, wrote:

“The command `Be ye perfect’ is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were “gods” and He is going to make good his words. If we let Him – for we can prevent Him, if we choose – He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, dazzling, radiant, immortal creatures, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to Him perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what he said.”
C. S. Lewis, “Mere Christianity,” Macmillan, 1952, p. 174.

However, I need to quibble with your phrasing a little bit. Our belief in deification does not mean that we believe that we will ever be “equal” to God or that we will ever stop worshipping him.

Here is how W. John Walsh states it:

“While we believe that the faithful will enjoy a life similar to our Heavenly Father, we also believe we will still be subject to and worship the God of Heaven, which is represented as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Furthermore, while we will be “gods, even the sons of God” (D&C 76:58), we will never be at the same level as them or stop worshipping them, but we will be like them and enjoy a quality of life similar to theirs.”
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/response/qa/godhood.htm

As we discuss the doctrine of deification with our non-member friends, we should make certain that they do not misunderstand us to be saying that we will, at some point, stop worshipping God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

By: Steve EM

Steve EM — Thu, 13 Apr 2006 23:45:57 +0000

My two cents: There’s at least one NT scripture that says the righteous will reign with Christ. So critics from other denominations are g-d makers too, unless they reject that part of the bible, which is doubtful. That said, I think Timothy is correct. This is hardly an essential “doctrine” of the church, not something I recall hearing at general conference, and those who so promote it seem to cite uncanonized sources such as the KFD. I also think it’s a concept that can’t be entirely understood in our earthly realm, akin to the wave/particle duality in physics. In other words, both Rusty’s response to the inquiry or a Mormon responding that the inquirer is mistaken and we don’t teach that, at least not in the fashion the inquiry implied, are both reasonable responses.

By: Defensor Veritatis

Defensor Veritatis — Thu, 13 Apr 2006 23:35:55 +0000

Whats Wrong With God-Making?

At Nine Moons, Rusty wonders why non-Mormons dont like the Mormon idea of the deification of human beings.
I asked him if he thought God was supremely happy. He said yes. Does God want us to be supremely happy? Yes. Why would God not do …

By: Chris Williams

Chris Williams — Thu, 13 Apr 2006 22:33:04 +0000

Rusty: It IS convenient to have a god that you can’t nail down, it makes it really easy to conform His character around what is convenient for you.

But Rusty, couldn’t you say the same about the Mormon conception of God? Mormons have a conception of God as a man–a reflection of who we are.

I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that. In many respects, it makes God more accessible, particularly if our goal is to be come like him. But I think that with a just a tiny bit of tinkering on the edges, Kurt’s criticism can be turned right back on Mormons.

By: Rusty

Rusty — Thu, 13 Apr 2006 22:04:02 +0000

Timothy,
The question was whether we believed that God was once a man (not if we will become gods) and President Hinckley was as political as he could be in his answer. Like I said, I don’t claim to know exactly what God used to be like and exactly what we will be like, but if you think we’re distancing ourselves from that doctrine go to the temple. It’s made quite clear what our future can be. Whether or not God had to live on an earth or become a Savior, I don’t know, but it’s pretty clear that God wants me, His child, to become like him.

By: kristen j

kristen j — Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:31:31 +0000

When I was in high school my friends were asking my dad about how we could believe this. My dad asked them, “Do you believe that you are children of your Heavenly Father?” To which they replied, “Yes.”

He then asked, “Isn’t it natural to assume that the child will grow and progress to become like the parent?”

I always liked that answer but if it’s going to work you have to be discussing this with a person who believes they are the actual children of God.