Too many requests Comments on: Get Off Your Butt and Move Yourself!! Oh, and Cook Your Own Meals Too!! http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=280 Fri, 26 Jun 2015 09:36:09 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.1 By: Don http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=280&cpage=1#comment-3705 Don Mon, 31 Jul 2006 20:46:37 +0000 http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=280#comment-3705 Welcome Stan, it's about time you took a moment and saw the blog in action. Actually it is difficult to find something new to discuss, or at least a new viewpoint. Most common things have been blogged to death by now. give me some more ideas....see where it takes us. Welcome Stan, it’s about time you took a moment and saw the blog in action.

Actually it is difficult to find something new to discuss, or at least a new viewpoint. Most common things have been blogged to death by now.

give me some more ideas….see where it takes us.

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By: Stan http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=280&cpage=1#comment-3701 Stan Mon, 31 Jul 2006 00:54:07 +0000 http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=280#comment-3701 Hey Don, I'm FINALLY checking out this blogspot you and Rusty have told me about. I think I've resisted for some time because, while I believe in the core principles of the church, I think the culture it has spawned often misses the mark. I'm sure that were I to read over the postings for the past couple of years, I'd find similar themes. However, if it is possible to have good discussion around the things that really matter, I'd love to participate. I see a recent posting from Rusty which indicates he is getting burned out with this. I'm glad to see our discussion about the welfare mentality in church took hold. I agree with your comments. I don't think the issue is should we or shouldn't we offer such services; some people truly need them. The issue is that we should structure the environment in the church such that people are not dependent on others, as much as possible. Clearly this is not always possible but it should be the goal. Unfortunately we introduce people to the church by offering them rides to church, moving help to their next apartment, welfare assistance as a 'perk', etc. We need a return to some of that 19th century Brigham Young spirit of independence. Maybe we should look at it as a problem of resources. We have limited human resources in each ward. When we squander those resources with EQ presidents calling around, getting movers, people actually doing the moving, etc. we divert resources which could be used on people who really need them. I recall in my ward in NY a man who had recently received his PhD and was moving in to teach at the university. We helped him move in. He moved out a few years later to do a sabbatical. He received help to move out and back in a year later. I've heard he is moving out this summer. He is a well-paid professional and should pay for his own moves or ask close friends to help, not rely on EQ Moving, Inc. Yet I'm always in awe of those silent workers in the ward, like my bishop of that ward. Busiest guy I know, yet shows up at moves like that, yet when he had to move last year, asked no one for help and paid movers to do most of the big work. I'm just a whiner. Stan Hey Don,
I’m FINALLY checking out this blogspot you and Rusty have told me about. I think I’ve resisted for some time because, while I believe in the core principles of the church, I think the culture it has spawned often misses the mark. I’m sure that were I to read over the postings for the past couple of years, I’d find similar themes.

However, if it is possible to have good discussion around the things that really matter, I’d love to participate. I see a recent posting from Rusty which indicates he is getting burned out with this.

I’m glad to see our discussion about the welfare mentality in church took hold. I agree with your comments. I don’t think the issue is should we or shouldn’t we offer such services; some people truly need them. The issue is that we should structure the environment in the church such that people are not dependent on others, as much as possible. Clearly this is not always possible but it should be the goal. Unfortunately we introduce people to the church by offering them rides to church, moving help to their next apartment, welfare assistance as a ‘perk’, etc. We need a return to some of that 19th century Brigham Young spirit of independence.

Maybe we should look at it as a problem of resources. We have limited human resources in each ward. When we squander those resources with EQ presidents calling around, getting movers, people actually doing the moving, etc. we divert resources which could be used on people who really need them. I recall in my ward in NY a man who had recently received his PhD and was moving in to teach at the university. We helped him move in. He moved out a few years later to do a sabbatical. He received help to move out and back in a year later. I’ve heard he is moving out this summer. He is a well-paid professional and should pay for his own moves or ask close friends to help, not rely on EQ Moving, Inc.

Yet I’m always in awe of those silent workers in the ward, like my bishop of that ward. Busiest guy I know, yet shows up at moves like that, yet when he had to move last year, asked no one for help and paid movers to do most of the big work. I’m just a whiner.
Stan

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By: annegb http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=280&cpage=1#comment-3608 annegb Sun, 16 Jul 2006 17:50:09 +0000 http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=280#comment-3608 There are people who tempt me to smack them upside of the head by their self-pitying helplessness. I get enraged when I hear the complaint "the bishop wouldn't pay their rent" or "she was sick for weeks and no one came to clean her house." On the other hand, I served as compassionate service for years and find that this type of people are in the minority. They exist in every ward, but usually the circumstances of those needing help arise quite suddenly. There is nothing more wonderful than being able to in some way assuage the grief a parent feels, or to reach out when a young father gets a diagnosis of cancer. Our task as Christians and the blessed among the world is to reach out to others and help. There is a difference between the leeches and those who genuinely need the help. And guess what? I usually help the leeches, because you never know. I like the saying "if you must err, err in mercy." Although, I have no trouble looking at the sister who forgot to pack before we got there and saying "Geez, Susan, what have you been doing all week?" There are people who tempt me to smack them upside of the head by their self-pitying helplessness. I get enraged when I hear the complaint “the bishop wouldn’t pay their rent” or “she was sick for weeks and no one came to clean her house.”

On the other hand, I served as compassionate service for years and find that this type of people are in the minority. They exist in every ward, but usually the circumstances of those needing help arise quite suddenly.

There is nothing more wonderful than being able to in some way assuage the grief a parent feels, or to reach out when a young father gets a diagnosis of cancer.

Our task as Christians and the blessed among the world is to reach out to others and help. There is a difference between the leeches and those who genuinely need the help.

And guess what? I usually help the leeches, because you never know. I like the saying “if you must err, err in mercy.”

Although, I have no trouble looking at the sister who forgot to pack before we got there and saying “Geez, Susan, what have you been doing all week?”

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By: Anonymous http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=280&cpage=1#comment-3607 Anonymous Mon, 10 Jul 2006 21:50:11 +0000 http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=280#comment-3607 I would be more than happy to move a member who actually attended our ward. But not ONCE have we moved an active member. None of the active members would dare request it b/c at least twice a month we are called on for an "emergency move" (i.e. they want to be moved NOW with no advance warning) for someone who has never been to church, and views the church as free labor. 70% of the time when we show up nothing is packed. And the worst part is if you say no to helping, you know the one true angel of our ward, a single man who is pushing 80, will be their alone hauling the boxes for 5 hours. Did i mention once i was called upon to help a single mom with her home, and showed up to your basic home remodel? I hung dry wall, and repainted walls to make it more asthetically pleasing. WHAT? I agree that we enable dependence on the church & its members, and get taken advantage of often - but am not sure there is a clear solution. Ater all haven't we been taught it is better to give to 10 who are un-worthy than turn away the 1 worthy? I would be more than happy to move a member who actually attended our ward. But not ONCE have we moved an active member. None of the active members would dare request it b/c at least twice a month we are called on for an “emergency move” (i.e. they want to be moved NOW with no advance warning) for someone who has never been to church, and views the church as free labor. 70% of the time when we show up nothing is packed. And the worst part is if you say no to helping, you know the one true angel of our ward, a single man who is pushing 80, will be their alone hauling the boxes for 5 hours. Did i mention once i was called upon to help a single mom with her home, and showed up to your basic home remodel? I hung dry wall, and repainted walls to make it more asthetically pleasing. WHAT?

I agree that we enable dependence on the church & its members, and get taken advantage of often – but am not sure there is a clear solution. Ater all haven’t we been taught it is better to give to 10 who are un-worthy than turn away the 1 worthy?

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By: Paul Mortensen http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=280&cpage=1#comment-3606 Paul Mortensen Mon, 10 Jul 2006 04:37:50 +0000 http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=280#comment-3606 By some perverse case of coincidence the day after I posted the above I had to go in for emergency surgury (apendectomy). My wife diagnosed my symptoms, took me to the hospital, dropped me off, and proceeded to take the kids to all their summer activities and still made it back in time to sign the waiver for my surgury. My family never missed a beat. That evening my wife got a call from the RS Pres asking if she could help provide a meal that evening for a family with a mother who had come down with stomach flu. My wife rolled her eyes and fullfilled the request-- never once mentioning what our family's current ordeal. At church today the RS Pres was quite shocked to find out the back story and equally shocked that we didn't play the role of chicken little. Any middle-class family with the least bit of preparedness should be able to do as well as we did given the situation. By some perverse case of coincidence the day after I posted the above I had to go in for emergency surgury (apendectomy). My wife diagnosed my symptoms, took me to the hospital, dropped me off, and proceeded to take the kids to all their summer activities and still made it back in time to sign the waiver for my surgury. My family never missed a beat. That evening my wife got a call from the RS Pres asking if she could help provide a meal that evening for a family with a mother who had come down with stomach flu. My wife rolled her eyes and fullfilled the request– never once mentioning what our family’s current ordeal. At church today the RS Pres was quite shocked to find out the back story and equally shocked that we didn’t play the role of chicken little.

Any middle-class family with the least bit of preparedness should be able to do as well as we did given the situation.

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By: Stephen M (Ethesis) http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=280&cpage=1#comment-3605 Stephen M (Ethesis) Fri, 07 Jul 2006 15:02:05 +0000 http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=280#comment-3605 In burying children, and being an active member of a ward, holding callings and doing them, I also managed to go several years without being visited by home teachers. I think you expect too much of the home teachers, etc. <i>He suggested that the women should have made meals in advance for her family and put them in the freezer. He also suggested that the husband was perfectly capable of fixing meals.</i> Indeed. One should never expect love, or care, or kindness. In burying children, and being an active member of a ward, holding callings and doing them, I also managed to go several years without being visited by home teachers.

I think you expect too much of the home teachers, etc.

He suggested that the women should have made meals in advance for her family and put them in the freezer. He also suggested that the husband was perfectly capable of fixing meals.

Indeed. One should never expect love, or care, or kindness.

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By: Bret http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=280&cpage=1#comment-3604 Bret Fri, 07 Jul 2006 11:33:26 +0000 http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=280#comment-3604 I think many here are missing the point. The problem isn't having to provide for others in need, it's providing for those who can manage the work themselves and/or EXPECT charitable help from others. Service from your fellow men isn't a right, it's a privilege and should always be viewed as such. I think Paul has a good point too in that we could spend our time looking for and helping those who are in REAL need of our service rather than on those who could do the work themselves or expect our help. If they need the help, great. If you just want to ease someone's burden by making a meal for them, great. But don't expect it. I think many here are missing the point.

The problem isn’t having to provide for others in need, it’s providing for those who can manage the work themselves and/or EXPECT charitable help from others. Service from your fellow men isn’t a right, it’s a privilege and should always be viewed as such.

I think Paul has a good point too in that we could spend our time looking for and helping those who are in REAL need of our service rather than on those who could do the work themselves or expect our help. If they need the help, great. If you just want to ease someone’s burden by making a meal for them, great. But don’t expect it.

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By: Proud Daughter of Eve http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=280&cpage=1#comment-3603 Proud Daughter of Eve Fri, 07 Jul 2006 03:00:46 +0000 http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=280#comment-3603 And what's wrong with being able to expect help from those in your spiritual family? Some things, like childbirth and moving may be more-or-less predictable but let me tell you, having even one small thing done (like a casserole brought over) that means one less thing to be taken care of is a world of relief. Not only that but it's an assurance that other people are aware of the events in your life and they care. Who wants less of that?? Some people may be ungracious about the help and be controlling and demanding but that's a problem with their attitude, not the church's. Anyway, it's not our job to judge if someone is "worthy" of our help or not; it's just our job to give what aid we can. "Even as ye do unto the least of these, my bretheren, ye have done it unto me." If they've taken unfair advantage then that's between them and the Lord. But every little thing I do for someone, needed or not, is also between me and the Lord. On which side would you rather be? And what’s wrong with being able to expect help from those in your spiritual family? Some things, like childbirth and moving may be more-or-less predictable but let me tell you, having even one small thing done (like a casserole brought over) that means one less thing to be taken care of is a world of relief. Not only that but it’s an assurance that other people are aware of the events in your life and they care. Who wants less of that??

Some people may be ungracious about the help and be controlling and demanding but that’s a problem with their attitude, not the church’s. Anyway, it’s not our job to judge if someone is “worthy” of our help or not; it’s just our job to give what aid we can. “Even as ye do unto the least of these, my bretheren, ye have done it unto me.” If they’ve taken unfair advantage then that’s between them and the Lord. But every little thing I do for someone, needed or not, is also between me and the Lord. On which side would you rather be?

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By: don http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=280&cpage=1#comment-3602 don Thu, 06 Jul 2006 20:24:12 +0000 http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=280#comment-3602 Susan and Rusty, It might be just meals and boxes, but it's a welfare attitude when we teach the members to expect it! Susan and Rusty,

It might be just meals and boxes, but it’s a welfare attitude when we teach the members to expect it!

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By: Rusty http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=280&cpage=1#comment-3601 Rusty Thu, 06 Jul 2006 18:52:56 +0000 http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=280#comment-3601 <i>Fixing meals and helping people move does not exactly equal a welfare state. It's just some meals and carrying some boxes.</i> Exactly. Fixing meals and helping people move does not exactly equal a welfare state. It’s just some meals and carrying some boxes.

Exactly.

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