Optional, mismanaged wars carried out under a blanket of deceit and denial are secondary to those.

I think Mormons like Bush because they believe he is a basically good man who shares their values. And I think they are largely right about that.

Why do people think this? Where did they get the idea he shares our values, because he said he does while trying to get votes? I don’t believe he’s a moral person at all, and it concerns me that so many fellow Utahns believe he is.

For the record, Bill Clinton was the biggest disappointment in all of my interest in politics. So much promise, so little self discipline. He has more brains in his little finger than the entire Republican Congress but he let’s something other than his brain rule his behavior.

That being said, Bill Clinton was impeached, IMPEACHED, because he lied about an afair with a White House intern in a private deposition for a law suit. The testimony of that deposition was intended to be confidential. And so how do you think the inquisitor, Ken Starr, got his hands on that testimony? Do you think there might have been some illegal activity in his obtaining it?

And so for two years and How many milllions of dollars in Special Prosecutor’s fees? Washington sat still while the Republicans in congress wasted our time and money with no significant consequence other than further dividing the people of this nation.

Compare those “illegal” activities to Bush’s trampling of the constitution and his manipulation of American public opinion through his lies and the lies of Cheney, Rice and so many others – even the previously deified Colin Powell. Thank of what little price he has had to pay for his bad behavior. The fact that you can’t see the difference in Bush’s illegal activities and those of Clinton speaks volumes.

Rusty, I don’t buy that this is true for anyone except for the folks in the deepest part of the woods. Everyone sees there is a problem. What differs are opinions as to what to do about the problem. It seems you are equating “seeing the problem” with “holding a specific opinion about resolving the problem,” a fallacy in thinking that many people seem to be making these days.

I guess my point didn’t come across quite like I intended. With the intell available and with Bush’s agenda he determined that the war with Iraq was warranted. At the time there was considerable support to that. Now that we didn’t go in and get things done quickly like we wanted there is all this stuff being said about how stupid the war is and we shouldn’t have entered it to begin with.

I’m NOT a big Bush fan. I’d like to see a quick clear cut policy on getting out. With 20/20 hindsight we can see that Vietnam didn’t go to Hell in a handbasket when we left…Iraq probably won’t either…and if it does we can deal with that.

Enough about the politics of the situation.

In answer to your question in the post…Never! For most of the reasons already present. I don’t think the conservatives in Utah would admit to liking Bush less…they would feel they have to like a liberal more then and they would abhor that idea. Liberal is a “four letter word” in Utah.

Thanks, yeah, I realized that that word was a bit too strong after I posted it. I don’t look at them that disrespectfully. After all Ezra Taft Benson and Harold B. Lee were prophets who gave us much good counsel. Forgive me for that mistake.

You can be a good Mormon and a Democrat or a liberal, but I’m not sure you can be a good Mormon and disrespect past presidents of the Church. You may not have intended it that way, but the phrase, “and their ilk,” has a negative connotation for most people. It denotes that the group you’re referring to is unsavory or of questionable character. Most Mormons won’t take kindly to that kind of language. Just a heads up.

I don’t have time to crunch numbers and determine the rate of decrease in approval ratings in Utah over the past few years, but I would bet that Utahns are turning against Bush at rates comparable to other red states, if not the national average. Until we have numbers indicating that Utahns aren’t turning against Bush, it’s kind of pointless to talk about why they aren’t.