Which brings me to your last paragraph, which is right on, but we also have to try to reach the kids that are not so prepared or motivated. That’s the hard part.

I know not all experiences are good and there are probably teachers out there who are not great but it is not an easy job and unfortunately sometimes first and second choices refuse to accept the call so third best has to do. The coordinators do the best they can to help us be better teachers but we have to be willing to listen and learn. People are people and some care and some… not so much.

In my experience, seminary has been a wonderful experience. I have seen miracles happen. the youth I work with are exceptional. They bear their testimonies in class on a regular basis. They are all wonderful speakers and teachers and have taken opportunities to share the gospel with friends and even with strangers. They have learned a lot and grown alot and I wonder if they realize the changes I have seen in them in their time in seminary or if one day they, too, will come on some chat site and complain about what a waste of time seminary was for them, because they are too young to see and understand the good it has done them. I hope not.

SOmething else that is crucial to a positive seminary experience is the preparation of the student. A kid who willingly attends and participates and wants to learn will have a good experience. The spirit will not force itself on you. You have to seek it.

I wasn’t implying that seminary should have been your number one priority. I was cringing at your “The Church needs to back off” bit. It’s not personal. I’m sure you’re awesome, and I’m glad you’ve found a way to deal with the guilt that comes with being less than perfect, because we all deal with that. I just have a problem with reading about people deciding what the Church should/shouldn’t do, as if an idiot was running it. Bothers me a lot, and you’re not the first to put a wrench in my chain. So, no worries.

Thread jack (sorry, all, but I can’t help it):

I beg to differ. Sure, we get the mandatories (Sacrament, baptism), but the other “nice to’s” often come across very much as “really need to do’s”. There’s

*Attend all 3 meetings
*Magnify your calling (which could mean gazillion other meetings, lesson prep times, trips away from home/family). Oh, and never say “no” to a calling.
*Regular temple attendance
*Daily scripture study + study with your family (kids particularly)
*Family Home Evening
*Service projects
*Home teaching
*Visiting teaching
*Allowing home teachers into your home
*Allowing visiting teachers into your home
*Seminary
*Regular journaling
*Genealogy
*10% tithes
*Fast offerings
*Fasting
*other financial donations (i.e. humanitarian age, mission fund)
*Serve a mission
*Clean the chapel/ward house (no more janitors)
*Live within your budget
*Have as many kids as you can
*One parent should stay home to raise them if at all possible
*Don’t go into debt except for education or to buy a home
*Don’t put off having children
*Keep the Sabath day holy
*Put your famiies first
*Make sure you magnify your callings
*Scouting/YM/YW
*Education
*Be a functioning member of society (I’ll lump in there all the things we have to do to get by in life, like do the laundry, pay bills, cook, clean, get kids to school, etc).

While a few of the things up on this list aren’t mandatory, I can tell you that they often are talked about in church/conference as if they are. I’m not saying that all aren’t good, I’m just saying that it’s really tough trying to do it all and not feeling a sense of overwhelming guilt when we don’t.

Seminary, I feel, was (at least for me) an early huge expectations and sense of “well, I can’t do it all so just nevermind” followed by guilt followed by “oh well, I give up since if I’m not perfect, what’s the point?” Followed by (in my adulthood) “Oh, well, I can only do what I can do and to heck with the rest.”

fwiw–

I had RT seminary. I loved it and considered it a blessing. However, I was still up by 5:30Am every day to get to band practice. By my senior year in high school, I was taking 5 AP classes, was the drum major of the marching band, taking piano and voice lessons, accompanying all the choirs in my school, involved in 5 after school clubs, in jazz band and percussion ensemble, was the Laurel President, Ward choir accompanist, ward organist, and stake youth choir director. I had a job working after school as a Dental Rover in a dental office. And I graduated with a 3.8 GPA. I graduated from seminary. Oh, and I had plenty of time for dating and friends.

I thrived, literally thrived on little sleep and plenty of stress. I lived for it.

But not all kids are the same.

It doesn’t matter if seminary is early morning or during the day. The choice needs to be made personally with parents and children. If Susan’s kids want to go to seminary early, then more power to them. I’m just tired of reading about how every teenager feels/needs/is the same. I think JA’s comment points that out very well.

To answer both your and Lulubelle’s questions, I hope to not bore everyone to death with too many details. We don’t force our high school teenagers to do anything. By the time a kid is 15-18 years old they are almost a grownup. You really can’t force them to do what they don’t want to do. There isn’t any point in alienating them.

#1 Son had an okay seminary experience for the first two years OT and D&C. Then his only two LDS friends moved and the Seminary teacher was changed. The last two years NT and BofM were a nightmare. We gave him the option of quitting. He did not want to. He is tenacious kid and had the goal of graduating seminary. He said that no one was taking his goal away from him. He wanted to put on his mission application that he was a seminary graduate. We were polite. Other parents complained about the conditions in seminary. We did not.

#1 Son read the scriptures all the way through on his own and memorized the missionary scriptures. He also went to a Christian after school Bible study group to discuss the NT. This and taking several difficult AP courses, being a team leader on Raiders (JROTC competitive team) that is ranked in the top 20 in the south. He also served in leadership positions in JROTC. He is an Eagle Scout and was active in the OA.

You only have to attend a certain number of days to graduate, so he went the minimum number of days and either slept in or went to an early morning physics study group. Often in Seminary he studied or slept.

The thing is certain parents and kids were gunning for him. He was not the only one who received this treatment. One of his friends who moved was treated like this also. Two other girls were driven into inactivity by this same crowd. We were so proud of that boy. He stood his ground and didn’t let them take away what was his (activity in the Gospel and to graduate Seminary).

Kim even when they drive I still get up with them and fix breakfast. Once I’m up. I’m up.

Well it is 8PM. Time for bed. Night ya’ll.

Kim: My daughter is our lone morning person. Not that the rest of us are night owls—I’m actually not much of an anything-person. Some people call it lazy. I call it low-energy. Or low-maintenance.