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	<title>Comments on: California Mormons Won&#8217;t Be Cool with Acts of Protest at Their Chapels</title>
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		<title>By: Chino Blanco</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=807&#038;cpage=2#comment-71863</link>
		<dc:creator>Chino Blanco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:05:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/2008/06/27/california-mormons-wont-be-cool-with-acts-of-protest-at-their-chapels/#comment-71863</guid>
		<description>Rob-

It&#039;s convoluted and not quite ready for prime time, but if you&#039;d like to understand something about where I&#039;m coming from, I&#039;d like to invite you to read this post:

http://chinoblanco.blogspot.com/2008/11/eagle-foundation.html

And before you take a gander, let me just say, I agree.

If my side ever intends to effectively respond to tactics like the RNC&#039;s &quot;72-Hour Task Force&quot; ... we&#039;re gonna need to start thinking about showing up for church in the weeks and days before regular church-goers are getting admonished to get out and vote.

That said, please give up the delusion that you&#039;re talking to someone who ever underestimated the Mormons in all of this.  If anything, I&#039;ve spent the last four months railing on my political allies re the stupidity of ignoring the power of the LDS ground game.

It&#039;s impressive.  Has been for the past three election cycles.  

Go on thinking that I&#039;m scum because I dirty myself with the nitty-gritty of our political processes.  Electoral politics is what it is and I&#039;m not gonna apologize for participating in the inherently vulgar aspects of a system of governance that I continue to believe in, even when things don&#039;t go my way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob-</p>
<p>It&#8217;s convoluted and not quite ready for prime time, but if you&#8217;d like to understand something about where I&#8217;m coming from, I&#8217;d like to invite you to read this post:</p>
<p><a href="http://chinoblanco.blogspot.com/2008/11/eagle-foundation.html" rel="nofollow">http://chinoblanco.blogspot.com/2008/11/eagle-foundation.html</a></p>
<p>And before you take a gander, let me just say, I agree.</p>
<p>If my side ever intends to effectively respond to tactics like the RNC&#8217;s &#8220;72-Hour Task Force&#8221; &#8230; we&#8217;re gonna need to start thinking about showing up for church in the weeks and days before regular church-goers are getting admonished to get out and vote.</p>
<p>That said, please give up the delusion that you&#8217;re talking to someone who ever underestimated the Mormons in all of this.  If anything, I&#8217;ve spent the last four months railing on my political allies re the stupidity of ignoring the power of the LDS ground game.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s impressive.  Has been for the past three election cycles.  </p>
<p>Go on thinking that I&#8217;m scum because I dirty myself with the nitty-gritty of our political processes.  Electoral politics is what it is and I&#8217;m not gonna apologize for participating in the inherently vulgar aspects of a system of governance that I continue to believe in, even when things don&#8217;t go my way.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=807&#038;cpage=2#comment-71855</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/2008/06/27/california-mormons-wont-be-cool-with-acts-of-protest-at-their-chapels/#comment-71855</guid>
		<description>Chino 
&lt;em&gt;&quot;Not me. I guess now we’ll see&quot;.&lt;/em&gt;

Your welcome to attend my ward&#039;s fast &amp; testimony meeting.  They need a wake up call as to what the adversary will try and do to disrupt the ultimate spread of the gospel. Kinda of like punching a beehive (i crack myself up. . .but I digress) 

News will spread quickly of the event, thereby creating even more forward movement for the church.  Remember, when you kick a Mormon, they do not go down the stairs, they go up the stairs. 

Let&#039;s get together and talk about a good time to make this happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chino<br />
<em>&#8220;Not me. I guess now we’ll see&#8221;.</em></p>
<p>Your welcome to attend my ward&#8217;s fast &amp; testimony meeting.  They need a wake up call as to what the adversary will try and do to disrupt the ultimate spread of the gospel. Kinda of like punching a beehive (i crack myself up. . .but I digress) </p>
<p>News will spread quickly of the event, thereby creating even more forward movement for the church.  Remember, when you kick a Mormon, they do not go down the stairs, they go up the stairs. </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s get together and talk about a good time to make this happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Chino Blanco</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=807&#038;cpage=2#comment-71463</link>
		<dc:creator>Chino Blanco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 18:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/2008/06/27/california-mormons-wont-be-cool-with-acts-of-protest-at-their-chapels/#comment-71463</guid>
		<description>&quot;California Mormons Won&#039;t Be Cool with Acts of Protest at Their Chapels&quot;

Perhaps, but who ever thought that we&#039;d arrive at the point of being able to actually test this hypothesis?

Not me.  I guess now we&#039;ll see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;California Mormons Won&#8217;t Be Cool with Acts of Protest at Their Chapels&#8221;</p>
<p>Perhaps, but who ever thought that we&#8217;d arrive at the point of being able to actually test this hypothesis?</p>
<p>Not me.  I guess now we&#8217;ll see.</p>
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		<title>By: MCQ</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=807&#038;cpage=2#comment-71212</link>
		<dc:creator>MCQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 07:03:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/2008/06/27/california-mormons-wont-be-cool-with-acts-of-protest-at-their-chapels/#comment-71212</guid>
		<description>Kristin, it is very popular for prop 8 opponents to describe prop 8 as an effort by religious folks to force their beliefs on others, but that&#039;s not really accurate.  We all live in this country and all Californians (by definition) live in California.  Do you really believe that someone who advocates legislation that bans a practice that she believes is wrong is always forcing her views on others?  Or is she just advocating legislation that makes her world a better place (according to her definition of &quot;better&quot;)?

If you follow your previous statement to its logical conclusion, no one could ever advocate laws against any behavior, as there will always be someone who disagrees with you and wants to practice that behavior.  

Logically, however, there are probably behaviors that even you want to have proscribed (laws against polluting for example?) and I suspect you do not think you are &quot;forcing your view on other people&quot; when you advocate such laws.  You just think you are trying to make your world better.  That&#039;s what Mormons think they are doing on Prop 8.  You can certainly disagree with them, but not for the reasons you stated above (at least, not if you want to be taken seriously).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kristin, it is very popular for prop 8 opponents to describe prop 8 as an effort by religious folks to force their beliefs on others, but that&#8217;s not really accurate.  We all live in this country and all Californians (by definition) live in California.  Do you really believe that someone who advocates legislation that bans a practice that she believes is wrong is always forcing her views on others?  Or is she just advocating legislation that makes her world a better place (according to her definition of &#8220;better&#8221;)?</p>
<p>If you follow your previous statement to its logical conclusion, no one could ever advocate laws against any behavior, as there will always be someone who disagrees with you and wants to practice that behavior.  </p>
<p>Logically, however, there are probably behaviors that even you want to have proscribed (laws against polluting for example?) and I suspect you do not think you are &#8220;forcing your view on other people&#8221; when you advocate such laws.  You just think you are trying to make your world better.  That&#8217;s what Mormons think they are doing on Prop 8.  You can certainly disagree with them, but not for the reasons you stated above (at least, not if you want to be taken seriously).</p>
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		<title>By: Kristin</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=807&#038;cpage=2#comment-71143</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 05:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/2008/06/27/california-mormons-wont-be-cool-with-acts-of-protest-at-their-chapels/#comment-71143</guid>
		<description>Ron, I think the difference is that standing up for your beliefs does not mean that you work with all your might to FORCE your view on OTHER people.  Standing up for your beliefs means that work to insure you personally have the rights you deserve; it has very little to do with the rights of anyone else.  Taking a stand against something should be that YOU refuse to engage or indulge in whatever it is that you believe is wrong, not trying to make OTHERS abide by your code. I believe the Mormon church seriously crossed the line, here. 

And isn&#039;t it a shame - $15,000,000+ donated by mormons to make sure others are forced to live by their code; just imagine how much good that $15,000,000 could have done in the world.  How many children would that have fed?  People need to get their priorities straight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron, I think the difference is that standing up for your beliefs does not mean that you work with all your might to FORCE your view on OTHER people.  Standing up for your beliefs means that work to insure you personally have the rights you deserve; it has very little to do with the rights of anyone else.  Taking a stand against something should be that YOU refuse to engage or indulge in whatever it is that you believe is wrong, not trying to make OTHERS abide by your code. I believe the Mormon church seriously crossed the line, here. </p>
<p>And isn&#8217;t it a shame &#8211; $15,000,000+ donated by mormons to make sure others are forced to live by their code; just imagine how much good that $15,000,000 could have done in the world.  How many children would that have fed?  People need to get their priorities straight.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Beuhler</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=807&#038;cpage=2#comment-71115</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Beuhler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 23:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/2008/06/27/california-mormons-wont-be-cool-with-acts-of-protest-at-their-chapels/#comment-71115</guid>
		<description>I am confused as to why so many people disagree with the LDS faiths stand on this issue.  It only makes sense that if their religioun denounces homosexuality based on moral belief, then it is their responsibility to stand against the proliferation on such an act.  Do I agree?  Hell no, but I do think that they have just as much right to oppose, as I have to support, and doing so does not make either side evil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am confused as to why so many people disagree with the LDS faiths stand on this issue.  It only makes sense that if their religioun denounces homosexuality based on moral belief, then it is their responsibility to stand against the proliferation on such an act.  Do I agree?  Hell no, but I do think that they have just as much right to oppose, as I have to support, and doing so does not make either side evil.</p>
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		<title>By: Northern Lights &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Blitz #1, The Bloggernacle: Gays, Mormons, and California Marriage</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=807&#038;cpage=2#comment-57374</link>
		<dc:creator>Northern Lights &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Blitz #1, The Bloggernacle: Gays, Mormons, and California Marriage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/2008/06/27/california-mormons-wont-be-cool-with-acts-of-protest-at-their-chapels/#comment-57374</guid>
		<description>[...] California Mormons Won’t Be Cool with Acts of Protest at Their Chapels  Nine Moons - June 27, 2008 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] California Mormons Won’t Be Cool with Acts of Protest at Their Chapels  Nine Moons &#8211; June 27, 2008 [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Doing &#8220;All You Can Do&#8221; to Support Ban on Gay Marriage&#8230;Should the Church Get Involved? &#171; Grace for Grace</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=807&#038;cpage=2#comment-57299</link>
		<dc:creator>Doing &#8220;All You Can Do&#8221; to Support Ban on Gay Marriage&#8230;Should the Church Get Involved? &#171; Grace for Grace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 02:00:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/2008/06/27/california-mormons-wont-be-cool-with-acts-of-protest-at-their-chapels/#comment-57299</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8220;California Mormons Won&#8217;t Be Cool With Acts of Protest At Their Chapels&#8220; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;California Mormons Won&#8217;t Be Cool With Acts of Protest At Their Chapels&#8220; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ama</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=807&#038;cpage=2#comment-57297</link>
		<dc:creator>Ama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 01:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/2008/06/27/california-mormons-wont-be-cool-with-acts-of-protest-at-their-chapels/#comment-57297</guid>
		<description>Does anyone happen to have a transcript online of what was read?  They didn&#039;t read it in our ward, but did in another ward.  I&#039;d be interested to hear exactly what the Church Statement read before I make very many comments...

www.graceforgrace.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone happen to have a transcript online of what was read?  They didn&#8217;t read it in our ward, but did in another ward.  I&#8217;d be interested to hear exactly what the Church Statement read before I make very many comments&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.graceforgrace.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.graceforgrace.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Seth R.</title>
		<link>http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=807&#038;cpage=2#comment-57290</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nine-moons.com/2008/06/27/california-mormons-wont-be-cool-with-acts-of-protest-at-their-chapels/#comment-57290</guid>
		<description>It would have had more impact if... say... 15 people stood up and walked out.

Probably a case of overestimating the amount of support in typical CA congregations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would have had more impact if&#8230; say&#8230; 15 people stood up and walked out.</p>
<p>Probably a case of overestimating the amount of support in typical CA congregations.</p>
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