Comments on: Realistic Idealism

By: fifthgen

fifthgen — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 14:05:36 +0000

Mo Mommy: My problem with the idea that we should all get to keep our hard earned possessions is that it betrays a very naive arrogance. I mean, we are talking, are we not, about all the stuff you earned through your hard work, after your public education, subsidized food, safe streets, and after driving to work on the public highways to work for the corporation that gets who-knows-how-many tax breaks and subsidies. We are all very connected and interdependent, and it is just silly to assume that we get what we get soley through or own effort. Since our society provides an incredibly helpful platform on which to stand, perhaps we should help maintain it, and help others get there, too.

By: Mark D.

Mark D. — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 04:55:07 +0000

#30: For a variety of reasons it is untenable to maintain that Satan’s plan could have saved anyone.

cf. 2 Ne 2:13, D&C 29:39.

By: Mo Mommy

Mo Mommy — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 22:22:56 +0000

The whole point is that I DON’T know. The line between the two seems very fine but the differences are still quite large if one is Satan’s plan and the other is the Lord’s. It’s just hard to tell exactly where it crosses the line…

By: Mo Mommy

Mo Mommy — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 22:18:41 +0000

This is true of totalitarian communism. I don’t know how any same person could think this is a good comparison to the United Order or to taxpayer-funded social program in free societies.

I don’t think they are at all the same, the differences are exactly what I was talking about. Like Tim J said, it can’t work if we make it just about money and possessions. I think the missing link in communism is all encompassing societal love and charity. Those things must be voluntary.

By: Tim J.

Tim J. — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 17:57:27 +0000

I think many of you need to review what the Law of Consecration entails. It’s not just possessions and money. And if we limit the Law to these material things only, it will not work. It cannot work.

By: Geoff J

Geoff J — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 17:54:02 +0000

Make that “sane person”.

Satan’s plan is also outlined in Alma 30 by the anti-Christ Korihor who told people:

“every man fared in this life according to the management of the creature; therefore every man prospered according to his genius, and that every man conquered according to his strength; and whatsoever a man did was no crime.”

By: Geoff J

Geoff J — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 17:50:26 +0000

Mo Mommy: In my understanding, Satan’s plan would have guaranteed we’d all do the right thing and get back to heaven. There’s no plan that could guarantee that without abolishing free will.

While this is a popular meme, I actually think this is theologically untenable speculation. God punishes wrong behavior and encourages right behavior and a good society would presumably do the same. None of our taxation laws remove free will — they simply attach rewards and punishments to compliance or lack thereof.

Communism takes an individuals money and property from their possession without giving them the choice to donate freely, much more similar to that Satan’s plan, in my opinion, than the “incentive” plan we’ve got now.

This is true of totalitarian communism. I don’t know how any same person could think this is a good comparison to the United Order or to taxpayer-funded social program in free societies.

By: Mo Mommy

Mo Mommy — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 16:11:02 +0000

I think causing physical harm to another person is on an entirely different level, as I said before. That goes far beyond the political and economic choices of a society.
But that is a good point,since even though we discourage certain actions, they still run rampant. The mere fact that we have prisons, police officers and courts is proof that human beings still have choice. Yes, they are punished for certain choices, but they have the option to decide.
In my understanding, Satan’s plan would have guaranteed we’d all do the right thing and get back to heaven. There’s no plan that could guarantee that without abolishing free will. Communism takes an individuals money and property from their possession without giving them the choice to donate freely, much more similar to that Satan’s plan, in my opinion, than the “incentive” plan we’ve got now.

By: Peter LLC

Peter LLC — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:56:37 +0000

o in order to keep more jobs in Europe & America we should accept pay cuts (and many already have)

Or be willing to increase productivity.

By: Velska

Velska — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 08:20:07 +0000

I have to bring up that it took legislation to stop slavery, to make education available to all at least theoretically and such. Government intervention is not always bad.

Now minimum wage may not be problem-free, but at least it is an effort to solve some of the worst exploitation situations. Of course, labor should be a resource that’s subject to competitive pricing… so in order to keep more jobs in Europe & America we should accept pay cuts (and many already have).