I Didn’t Get My Eagle

Rusty - October 12, 2005

And I don’t feel bad about it.

With all the talk about scouting I thought I’d throw in my two merit badges. I’m not a big fan of the scouting program. I loved camping with all my buddies. But we didn’t need scouts to do that, just some leaders that were willing to take us. And do you know how much more fun those trips could have been without the charade of doing some silly activity so I could get a little patch? Answer: a lot.

Once we stopped doing it as a church activity, I was done (I got my Star). Better to be mountain biking, playing basketball, and hanging with chicks than learning the bowline. But hey, at least I went farther than my dad, he only got his 2nd Class. What a bum.

From my (largely anecdotal) experience boys get their Eagle when they’re one of three ages: 14, 16, or days before they turned 18. 14 because their moms/dads pushed them so much to get it as soon as they can (and 14 seems to be the earliest age you can get it). 16 because their parents said they couldn’t date or drive until they got their Eagle. 18 because they felt the obligation to get it but were just plain lazy.

Then there are us snarky bums who didn’t do the work and feel a sense of satisfaction from making fun of those who did. I suspect it has something to do with us being “in the attitude of mocking and pointing [our] fingers towards those who had come at and were partaking of the fruit [of the Eagle].” Our ultimate goal, of course, is that you will feel “ashamed… and fall away into forbidden paths.”

What’s most surprising is that I landed a job without even having “Eagle Scout” on my resume.

61 Comments »

  1. Yeah, I got my Eagle a couple months before my 14th birthday (what else would you expect from Ned Flanders?). My Dad all but threw me over the goal line. He was like, “You don’t want to be worried about getting merit badges when you’re seventeen.”

    It was, generally speaking, a complete waste of time and resources. I think my “Eagle project” cost my Dad a couple hundred bucks out of pocket. That had to hurt.

    And no, I’ve never put it on my resume. I don’t want them to laugh in my face.

    Comment by NFlanders — October 12, 2005 @ 12:47 am

  2. I have to agree with you guys. Of all the things I spent time on as a teenager, scouting was easily the least useful. Somehow, while spending a lot more time running cross country and practicing piano, I managed to cobble together all the requirements, probably so that I could help my scout leaders feel like they were fulfilling their callings. I moved a lot to areas where there were few members, so I was often one of very few scouts. Since getting the Eagle, I have found it to be as irrelevant to the future as I expected. I did teach a bunch of locals the Personal Fitness badge a couple of years ago — and they definitely needed it.

    Comment by Bill — October 12, 2005 @ 1:56 am

  3. Rusty: “I didn’t get my eagle”

    Don’t feel bad dude, I didn’t get past Second Class…

    (Ha! Take that all you Tenderfoots!)

    Comment by Geoff J — October 12, 2005 @ 3:01 am

  4. Oh yeah, I feel pretty good about it being in company with Don though…

    Comment by Geoff J — October 12, 2005 @ 3:04 am

  5. And the worst part about it is that I still can’t remember how to tie a bowline.

    Comment by NFlanders — October 12, 2005 @ 4:14 am

  6. Guys, fools mock, but they shall mourn. You’re all a bunch of lightweights. Drop and gimme 20! (I actually had a scoutmaster who tried to teach us to march in formation and do calisthenics. What a waste.)

    But, seriously, someday there will probably be a separation of church and scout. What do we want the YM activities to look like then? My guess is there will still be a strong outdoor component, combined with service and doing good turns. In other words, it will look a lot like the BSA, sans the paramilitary salutes, uniforms, insignia of rank, etc.

    Comment by Mark IV — October 12, 2005 @ 10:11 am

  7. Well you missed out on the secret Eagle handshake!

    I was pretty enthusiastic about the program, got my Eagle, had a ton of badges, and even worked at Scout Camp one summer.

    Over time however I have felt less enthusiastic about the program. Part of it is that many of the merit badges are useless or hopelessly out of date. Another part is that LDS troops dillute the value of the Eagle rank, basically pumping out Eagles that would never get there in a normal troop. Basically the program as instituted in the Church almost mandates that a boy get his Eagle and provides a level of support that simply isn’t present in the other troops.

    Comment by a random John — October 12, 2005 @ 10:18 am

  8. I didn’t even make it into Cub Scouts.

    Comment by Chris Williams — October 12, 2005 @ 10:19 am

  9. What are you talking about, arJ? Are you saying that the Bugling and Railroading merit badges are somehow out of date?

    Thanks a lot for implying that I personally devalued the rank of Eagle.

    Comment by NFlanders — October 12, 2005 @ 10:32 am

  10. Ned,

    You know, I worked at a railroad most of the winter/spring this year. In Canada! Maybe that merit badge would have helped. Really I don’t think that any merit badge I’ve ever earned has been helpful in my adult life, though first aid is always good to know.

    Comment by a random John — October 12, 2005 @ 10:36 am

  11. Interesting, arJ. I play reveille every morning to wake up the neighborhood. They don’t say anything to me, but I know they appreciate it. Also, I can rouse them at night in case of cattle rustlers.

    Comment by NFlanders — October 12, 2005 @ 10:43 am

  12. I got my eagle. I was a really good brownshirt! (Okay, I acknowledge that Mark already pointed out the awkward paramilitary component of Scouting in this conversation. But I felt it was worth another mention.)

    I think the Scouting program is just a terrible waste of time. At least it was for me.

    Comment by RoastedTomatoes — October 12, 2005 @ 10:49 am

  13. Ned,

    You mean you DON’T hold a semaphore flag in each hand to transmit morse code? My scoutmaster would tear that eagle badge right off your shirt and bust you back to buck tenderfoot. You would be on KP while the rest of your patrol was out learning what kind of poison ivy you can eat.

    Comment by Mark IV — October 12, 2005 @ 10:50 am

  14. I do think that a benefit of having young men participate in the BSA is that it help prepare them for some of the living conditions they encounter when they serve missions. I’ve heard some of them report that they were very glad they had learned to make a comfortable bed on the ground, how to purify water, and so on. That is the main benefit that I can see.

    Comment by Mark IV — October 12, 2005 @ 10:55 am

  15. I have to admit, the times I’ve wandered off into the woods and gotten lost, those survival skills have come in handy.

    Comment by Rusty — October 12, 2005 @ 11:04 am

  16. Rusty, I told you to stay out of Prospect Park!

    Comment by NFlanders — October 12, 2005 @ 11:10 am

  17. I should add that I can tie a lot of knots. Fancy ones. Also, I can splice rope like nobody’s business.

    Comment by a random John — October 12, 2005 @ 11:12 am

  18. Don’t feel bad, Rusty. I didn’t get an eagle scout award either.

    Comment by Kim Siever — October 12, 2005 @ 11:14 am

  19. I appreciated scouts for helping me improve both my three point shot and my crossover move.

    Comment by Geoff J — October 12, 2005 @ 11:19 am

  20. I was never a Scout in any form, but now I’m YM President and the Venture leader. I’ll admit the outdoors and Scouting are not my thing, but I think there is a benefit to the boys at this age. The skills are not important, but setting goals and the sense of acomplishment are important.

    How do you feel about high school? Wasn’t there a lot of silly stuff in HS that is of no benefit now?

    In retrospect it is easy to pick apart Scouting, but it is hard to gauge the impact on the youth while they are in the program. Remember, teen age years are difficult and filled with angst. Everyone just wants to belong and something as dorky as Scouting provides that.

    It is one thing to be a dorky Scout 14 – 18 years old. The thing I don’t get is the adults that can’t let it go.

    Comment by rs — October 12, 2005 @ 11:38 am

  21. When missionaries come over for dinner, I often ask what was the best scout trip they ever went on. The best story was told me a couple years ago by a Coloradoan. His troop hiked across the Great Sand Dunes National Monument near Alamosa. They started in the back, away from the area most people visit, and came out in the front. As they descended back into the world of ordinary people, they looked like a lost Foreign Legion squad and attracted the attention of those who saw them coming from miles away and wondered “Who are those guys?” The appeal of this sort of thing is apparently lost on many.

    Comment by John Mansfield — October 12, 2005 @ 11:39 am

  22. rusty, you crack me up.

    in my family it was a rule that you were not able to date or drive until you earned your eagle. being the 5th of 6 boys did not help in the matter that the rules were set, and i had no choice. i disliked scouts and it became the only real source of contention between my parents and i. i plain and simple didn’t want to do it. i had seen so many other boys mothers do their merit badges for them that i didn’t see the point. camping is so much better when you don’t have to worry about lame merit badges. you sit around campfires, laugh, roast some marshmallows, and call it a night. i did always feel bad for the nerdy kid who somehow got his underwears stuck up on a pole…

    needless to say that i got my eagle two days before my 18th birthday, while i was living in the dorms at byu. you guessed it, no driving and no dating throughout high school. how’s that for an awkward time growing up?

    in the end, having my eagle scout is about as useful as owning my archery merit badge living in new york city.

    Comment by stephen b — October 12, 2005 @ 12:18 pm

  23. “i got my eagle two days before my 18th birthday, while i was living in the dorms at byu. you guessed it, no driving and no dating throughout high school”

    That’s child abuse, plain and simple. I would have called the cops.

    Comment by NFlanders — October 12, 2005 @ 1:04 pm

  24. As Rusty pointed out, I only got my 2nd class rank. It just goes to show you that nobody is a total loss…I can always serve as a bad example.

    Geoff, I keep finding reasons to like you, you fellow 2nd classer you!

    The whole blog doesn’t seem to be very well balanced. Where are all the Eagles and scouters who just love the program and think it’s great? I would at least expect a comment from Silver Beaver Tommy Monson…..maybe he has said something and that’s why we still have the scouting program in the church.

    Comment by don — October 12, 2005 @ 1:13 pm

  25. I didn’t get my eagle, I couldn’t stand scouts (give him a hand, round of applause, holding boys upside down to put pins on them, you know what I mean), and I’ve never regretted being the only of five brothers to be “eagle-less”, but I do find it ironic that I am in charge of the entire scouting organization in my ward. It’s been tough, but I have been able to see the benefits of scouting. I’m not talking so much about the skills they are taught, but how scouting can help develop leadership skills, confidence and responsibility. Granted, we do have great scout leaders in our ward, which makes a huge difference. I’ll be having a son here in the next month, and I hope his scouting experience is a healthy mixture of him wanting the eagle and myself encouraging. I too, Rusty, somehow have a job and, even more unbelievable, my license.

    Comment by Rob — October 12, 2005 @ 1:16 pm

  26. Rob, you showed in Guatemala (taking jumps, driving on the beach, etc) that you don’t deserve your license. Maybe you did those things because you weren’t a disciplined scout.

    Comment by Rusty — October 12, 2005 @ 1:32 pm

  27. “Where are all the Eagles and scouters who just love the program”

    A worthy question, Don. It’s interesting to me that most of the naysayers didn’t get their Eagle. A bit of Eagle envy, perhaps?

    What I find amusing are the complaints that Scouting would have been more fun without the specific Scouting aspects. Well, that’s just about a given. That’s like saying Scout camp is unfun compared to a resort vacation camp. That’s like saying “High School was okay and all, but it would have been a lot more fun if they didn’t make us do any schoolwork and just let us do gym all day long.” That’s like saying you would have gotten a lot more out of your mission if you didn’t have to do that discussion stuff.

    The purpose and goal of Scouting is to strengthen character. It’s to learn about things in the world that teenage boys would never care about otherwise. It’s about learning to care about people we would never care about otherwise. Scouting, like most things in life, is a program where you get out of it what you put into it. If you approach Scouting half-heartedly, with a negative attitude or with an “I’m here. Entertain me.” attitude, you’re not going to get anything of lasting value out of the program.

    Comment by Eric Russell — October 12, 2005 @ 1:47 pm

  28. I got my Eagle when I was almost 18, had everything done except the eagle project years before that (because getting merit badges is easy). I wasn’t LDS then, but it was a good experience for me, I only got motivated to earn the rank becasue I love my dad and it meant a lot to him. I painted a huge mural of snow white and the seven dwarfs in a room the government in Indiana uses to Interview Abused or molested Children. I was pretty proud of it.

    I think Scout leaders can get to focused on earning crap and not on having fun. Mainly we just went rock climbing every month, or we went sailing or caving, or whatever we decided on as a group. I think a lot of that is up to the adults putting forth the effort, and a lot of it is up to the youth putting forth the effort.

    Anyway, I was very lucky and had a good program.

    Comment by matt witten — October 12, 2005 @ 1:58 pm

  29. Eric, I earned my eagle the first day the waiting-time requirements for each rank permitted. Is that whole-hearted enough for you? Until the invention of email spam, I had never had a greater number of unwholesome images thrust at me than I did during scout activities. Fellow scouts occasionally tried to talk me into joining them in stealing things from leaders or from stores. Is that character building? My scout leader spent a lot of our time explaining various conspiracy theories and teaching us how to survive chemical-warfare attacks. Is it just me or was that pathological?

    I got my eagle as quickly as I could so that I could get out. My parents wouldn’t let me quit scouts until I got that badge, so there was a real incentive.

    Can someone explain to me how a Christ-centered young men’s program modeled after the best parts of the young women’s program would be (could be) worse?

    Comment by RoastedTomatoes — October 12, 2005 @ 2:32 pm

  30. “I got my eagle as quickly as I could so that I could get out.”

    Sorry, RT. But no, that doesn’t sound whole-hearted at all.

    In response to your last question: if a Young Men’s program was run by the same ineffectual leaders and involved the same corrupt youth, why would it be any better?

    Comment by Eric Russell — October 12, 2005 @ 3:05 pm

  31. My husband got his eagle. Whenever I say that he says, “No, my mother did.” His mom did most of it.

    I personally do not get scouts and my kids aren’t taking part, really. My oldest son was but then we moved and lost his scout records and he just never picked it back up again. He goes to the activities and camp but I don’t think he worries about making all the merit badges. Our youngest has never gone because they met at the same time IN A DIFFERENT BUILDING than my other kids, and that was ridiculous. Now he meets at the same time in the same building but we’re not home from work by then to make him go, so he doesn’t.

    I’m a lame mom.

    Comment by Susan M — October 12, 2005 @ 3:12 pm

  32. For the first half of my scouting carrer, I belonged to a troop with a bunch of my friends from school. It was an amazing troop. Very organized and well led. We had a weekly meeting troop meeting and then break off into our individual patrolls. At the meeting you had to wear your “class B” uniform which consisted of a red troop shirt, green boy sout pants or shorts, and those dorky wool green and red socks. We’s sport the full brown shirt or “class A” for special events. We’d have weekend campouts every month. I was well on my way to earning my eagle in that troop.
    Meanwhile, my YM advisor was constantly pestering me and my mom, to join the church troop. I forgot what his whole line of reasoning was, but some how he persuaded me and I swithced troops. Little did I know, but by switching to the church troop I had esentially quit the scouting program. Instead of weekly troop meetings, I just played basketball with my quorum. Camping trips sucked because you could only camp within a certain radius of the stake, so no more cool trips to Colorado. Church scouts just plain suck. I think its the worst idea to make scout leader a calling. Instead of having motivated individuals who want to be a part of the scouting progam, you get some poor guy who’s doing it out of obligation.

    Comment by Brett — October 12, 2005 @ 3:25 pm

  33. Eric, if the activities were built around Jesus, I think that would change people’s hearts and behaviors in a way that activities built around campfires and orienteering can’t.

    Comment by RoastedTomatoes — October 12, 2005 @ 3:25 pm

  34. Looks like a non sequitur, RT. Are you saying Young Men’s activities shouldn’t contain anything of secular value? What kinds of Jesus-centered activities are you talking about and would any young men actually attend? If you have the right leaders, Scouting can be very Christ-centered.

    Comment by Eric Russell — October 12, 2005 @ 4:47 pm

  35. RT, I’d hate to see the YM program delevoped solely around Jesus, hoping it would change their hearts and behaviors. S.S., FHE, seminary, personal scripture study and personal prayer should do that. A youth program centered on camping, orienteering, outdoor activities and skill I think can teach character, and change people.

    There is just something about the outdoors, campfires and nature that works for most youth. Doing it the scouting way…probably not…doing it with the gospel….probably.

    Comment by don — October 12, 2005 @ 4:54 pm

  36. Eric and Don, my problem with Scouting is that (while some people may add Christian content into it) it isn’t fundamentally religious. Why, then, is it our church program?

    I like the outdoors and nature. I’m not opposed to the idea of a YM program that engages them–as does the YW program. What I dislike is the Scouting program.

    Comment by RoastedTomatoes — October 12, 2005 @ 5:55 pm

  37. Rusty forgot to mention that him and I got our Star on the SAME DAY and he’s FOUR YEARS OLDER then me!
    Not that I care, I didn’t get any farther either…

    Comment by Bret — October 12, 2005 @ 6:44 pm

  38. Ok ok ok as ranking Clifton I feel I need to say a few words. (Life woo-hoo!)
    You guys are either a bunch of synical whiners, (Rusty whine??) or you had REALLY bad scout masters.

    I LOVED SCOUTS.

    Plain and simple. Its where I almost cut my finger off, learned to swim, swam a mile the following year, lived breathed and ate (at times) the outdoors and has instilled a love I have for them probably for the rest of my life. In my years at scouting I was able to grow incredibly close to the men in our ward and see their shining examples as husbands and fathers. I got to grow even closer to 26 other guys my age(big youth) and share in amazing testimonies with them. 26/27 Men in our quarem have served missions, and I feel VERY strongly that scouting and the values we were taught there prepared us all for being the worthy members of the church we are today.
    Yes, ofcourse the badges are silly and half out of date, but I would never have gone skiing or camping outside a motor-home, or learned to swim if it wasnt for scouts. If nothing else I have a million stories to reminise about with ANY other scout Ive ever crossed…

    Comment by Bryce — October 12, 2005 @ 9:42 pm

  39. Of course scouting is Mormon! Both have connections to Masonry!

    Comment by a random John — October 12, 2005 @ 10:51 pm

  40. I just typed a fairly lengthy comment and then accidentally deleted it. Don’t you hate when that happens? Perhaps it’s better to have to redo it and be more concise.

    I’m the teachers’ quorum adviser, and we had our weekly meeting tonight. I was working with my (two) young men on the Citizenship in the World merit badge. I was really struck by the fact that this MB has requirements that should teach young men the sort of multi-cultural awareness that Americans are often acused of lacking. Ditto for teaching the sense that America is part of something bigger the (i.e., the world community).

    When done right, the scouting program has enormous potential for good. Of course, good leaders are required to do it right, and the supply of good leaders seems sparse at times. I had great leaders, for the most part. Many of the other boys were big-time jerks, but that’s a story for a different time.

    And merit badges…yes, some of them are utterly useless or arcane (ref. Brother Flanders, above) But some are quite useful, and teach skills that I would want my children to know, e.g. cooking (think of your mission companions), home repairs, lifesaving, plumbing, auto mechanics, or personal management. And some could potentially expose young men to things that could become lifetime hobbies or perhaps even vocations. Take, for example, astronomy, cinematography, geology, bird study, or public health.

    Some of the merit badges were just cool, like rifle shooting or archery. I always thought they should have a badge for Pyrotechnics. That’s one that every scout would have gotten. One night at scout camp would convince most anyone that the organization should be called “Young Pyromaniacs of America” don’t ya think?

    Now, I have to confess…I didn’t get my Eagle either. I think my mom wanted me to feel bad about it, but I really didn’t. She tried doing the thing with not letting me get my driver’s license; but when she realized how useful it would be to have some help shuttling my younger siblings around, she caved.

    Oh dangit. This got long again.

    Comment by Blain — October 13, 2005 @ 1:59 am

  41. Um…but scouting ISNT Mormon…

    Comment by Bryce — October 13, 2005 @ 6:36 am

  42. Susan M, my husband is the same way. He and all of his brothers got their eagles, pushed, pulled, and dragged by their enthusiastic mother. He fully admits that his mother is the only reason he has it – he enjoyed scouts (camping, hiking, etc.) but not scouting requirements and his interest in the program declined the further into his teens he got. His mother keeps their Eagle pictures, plaques, all that jazz, up on a shelf in her house because really, she earned it. I think we get them when she dies or something.

    I have four brothers who all participated in scouting, and none of them got their Eagle either. One brother did his Eagle project, then just didn’t bother to submit everything. He said he just didn’t feel like it. Heh.

    Comment by Sue — October 13, 2005 @ 9:42 am

  43. Bryce,

    It was meant as a joke, but a joke has to have some truth behind it, right?

    Linky 1 and Linky 2.

    Comment by a random John — October 13, 2005 @ 10:21 am

  44. Thanks for that second link, arJ. I had no idea the Order of the Arrow was so Masonic.

    Comment by NFlanders — October 13, 2005 @ 2:07 pm

  45. I never joined so I didn’t know. Oh, I screwed up that first link. Here is a second try:
    http://www.quapawbsa.org/db/uploads/986321344_Local_brotherhoodquestionnaire.pdf

    Comment by a random John — October 13, 2005 @ 2:48 pm

  46. I don’t have my eagle yet…but I have a 4 year old son so I expect to be getting it in about 10 years or so.

    I have participated in many an eagle project though. Mostly it was painting some huge mural, clearing a hike trail, etc at 10:30 pm the night before the scout turned 18.

    What drives me crazy are the nazi scout leaders. Once I got called to work in cub scouts. I was 8 months pregnant and broke so the last thing I wanted to do was buy a scouting uniform for myself.

    The lady in my ward was an extreme scouting nazi and was CONSTANTLY harassing me to get a scouting shirt. Eventually I bummed a really old one from another lady in my ward and managed to squeeze it around my big belly.

    The next time I saw the scout nazi she said, “Hey, you need to tuck that shirt in!” She was half joking but I was ready to punch her in the head by that point!

    Here’s an interesting fact about me…My grandfather was the oldest living scout in Washington State until he died at age 93 (talk about scout nazi!)!

    Comment by kristen j — October 14, 2005 @ 11:25 am

  47. Kristen, that was a fact about your grandfather, not you, silly.

    Comment by Rusty — October 14, 2005 @ 11:55 am

  48. Count me as one of the supporters, as long as there are good leaders.

    My troop was Church-based, and by some freak alignment of the planets, many of the men in the ward were incredibly devoted leaders. Some of my best memories and stories from my early to mid teenage years are Scout related.

    On the other hand, I know at least two of the guys in my troop would report exactly the opposite experience–they probably hated it. A lot of that had to do with the geographical makeup of our ward (most guys from one high school, a few from others), but it really isn’t for everyone.

    One thing that my experience taught me is that leaders and adults don’t always know what they’re doing. One of my most fond memories is the Great Horsetail Falls Rebellion, wherein a few of us kids basically committed mutiny to protect a kid who just physically couldn’t do what our leader was demanding.

    I think that my experience was rare, and probably doesn’t justify the continued support of the BSA program by the Church, but I’m not ready to decry Scouting as a waste of time–it certainly wasn’t that. I learned a great deal about leadership, service, and community solidarity.

    Comment by Justin H — October 14, 2005 @ 5:52 pm

  49. Bryce,
    I loved scoits too! All the stuff you talked about.
    I think it’s a fantastic program that I hope the church can continue to support.
    HOWEVER, it should if scouting can get rid of the major problem of taking itself too seriously. What I mean is all the ridiculous crap regarding not being able to get a job without your eagle and being stupidly stringent on its rules. I had too many merit badge problems because I didn’t follow the EXACT letter of the law on my work. I heard too many stories of would-be Eagles losing out because they didn’t keep copies of EVERYTHING they did when the scout office somehow lost the originals, and I got SOOOO tired of not being able to have any fun with fire, a gun, a knife, or an axe because I wanted to do a little more then cook my food, shoot a target, carve a wooden dog or chop wood.

    Comment by Bret — October 14, 2005 @ 11:10 pm

  50. What about the rumor that you can out of a speeding ticket by showing the officer your Eagle Scout ID card? A former mission comp. (from Utah) swore he did this.

    Comment by Tim J. — October 15, 2005 @ 12:31 am

  51. Well now I wish I had an eagle scout id card. I just got my first speeding ticket the other day.

    I tried to be so sweet and humble with dropping the fact that I’d never even been pulled over before and it got me no where. If only I had that eagle card!

    Comment by kristen j — October 15, 2005 @ 12:38 am

  52. Ok upon review of my brothers scouting expirences I realize something:
    Brother Wagstaff vrs. Brother Squires
    One guy the most anal man I think I could’ve possibly met. Who, as Bret said, never let the scouts be, well, scouts. And the other man, a humble soft spoken spiritual giant who is currently the Bishop of our home ward. The man was born on a horse in his scouting uniform I swear it.
    Another point I thought of after my first post was for Rusty and the rest of you who whined about useless scouting. You complained that you could have been doing better, more fun, activites with your time and that railroading was stupid. But as I recall Rusty having a blast going rafting, moutain biking and fishing I believe all through scouts. You say Archery is pointless in NYC, but then say you didnt get to have any fun. SO why is it all the kids at scout camp try to sneak in the most Firing Range time possible? I dont think its couse theyre homicidle.

    Comment by Bryce — October 15, 2005 @ 3:06 am

  53. Bryce,
    Yes, Wagstaff had something to do with it, but the whole attitude of scouting in general was that way and I think it makes it stupid and more work on worthless crap then it should be (instead of on the important stuff)
    Remember I had Bro Jolley for 16 months and Wagstaff for 8 and Bro Squires as asisstant during that time.

    Comment by Bret — October 15, 2005 @ 9:26 pm

  54. Umm, I don’t think there is an Eagle Scout ID card. At least, I didn’t get one. You get a certificate and a medallion; that’s it. Maybe your companion was wearing his Eagle medallion around when he was driving. The officer probably felt so sorry for him, he let him off with a warning.

    Comment by NFlanders — October 16, 2005 @ 2:52 am

  55. Ned,
    LOL!!

    Comment by Rusty — October 16, 2005 @ 8:14 pm

  56. i love ned flanders…

    i got an eagle scout card, that subsequently was stolen from a bathroom in mexico while i was on my mission playing soccer with some of the youth. it was in the wallet that i had for years that never threw anything away. que in the the theme song from seinfeld… thing is, the getting out of a ticket with your eagle scout card is total bollocks! that can’t be possible, unless the officer has his uniform on underneath his bullet-proof vest.

    i do agree though that it depends a lot on the leaders ability to motivate the kids. if you have great leaders, you have the potential to have kids highly motivated in scouting.

    albeit scouting is not a saving element in the eternal scheme of things. i don’t feel that it should be included in the every lesson growing up for both ym and yw that you have to be an eagle scout, missionary, etc to be a worthwhile mate. i think that the focus was lost long ago.

    but it would be nicer if you could just have more time to be boys, jump over fires, and enjoy the times that can be shared. my issues with it stem from parental beurocracy.

    Comment by stephen b — October 17, 2005 @ 5:12 pm

  57. I recieved my eagle at 17. I’ve used and continue to use what I learned in scouts numerous times. Everything from CPR, cooking, basic camping, to tieing knots. I wouldn’t dismiss the program as useless. The majority of things I learned are helpful in my daily life.

    Scouting is like college. I’ve never really met anyone that has obtained an eagle or a degree and turned around and dismissed it as useless in there lives. The only people who generally do that obtained neither.

    Comment by San Clementian — October 17, 2005 @ 7:09 pm

  58. Love the topic. Through extreme bribery, I did get my Eagle a few days before I turned 18, but if I ever put it on my resume (in my line of work) it would probably do more harm than good. Being an Eagle Scout in this day and age isn’t what it used to be in the 1950s.

    Comment by Travis — October 18, 2005 @ 9:55 pm

  59. Ahhh, we just finished a 2 yr run with my husband as Scoutmaster in our ward. He falls into the category of: Loves the outdoors and camping, unimpressed with the Scouting program within the church & compelling YM to do it. Wish I had read this thread earlier. Great laughs. Unfortunately, our bishop was Scoutmaster for 7 yrs. When he released my husband, he literally said, “Now Brother, not everyone can be as great a Scoutmaster as Joe Blow [referred to himself in the 3rd person], and it was tough for you to try and fill those shoes.” My husband just kind of tuned out from that point on…

    It was fun–we have 4 children 6 and under. He was Scoutmaster and I was YW President. Is that even legal?

    Comment by Lizardbreath — October 18, 2005 @ 11:47 pm

  60. I got a card too, Ned. I have no idea where it is. And I lost all respect for the scout program when they used dishonest arguments in the Dale case.

    Comment by Kaimi — October 26, 2005 @ 10:56 pm

  61. (For a more lengthy discussion of Dale and honesty, see http://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php?p=195 ).

    Comment by Kaimi — October 26, 2005 @ 10:59 pm

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