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Nine Moons » Blog Archive : Why the Banner of Heaven is Fake » Why the Banner of Heaven is Fake

Why the Banner of Heaven is Fake

Rusty - October 24, 2005

So I emailed Septimus at the Banner of Heaven with the idea of guest-posting at Banner of Heaven with the intent to prove them fake. He didn’t like that idea so much (to a real person it would be difficult to be told that you’re not real), but he reconsidered hoping to put all the speculation (of their fraud) to rest. Yes, that’s exactly my point! Well, apparently they feel it would be better for me to post it here rather than there because someone was crying… or something like that. I’d like their feedback but I’m not holding my breath considering not a single one of them have EVER left a comment here at Nine-Moons. If Septimus is willing to write a rebuttal I will post it here as a guest post. As always we are interested in Truth here at Nine-Moons, so his defense would be welcome.

First things first: I’d like to extend a thank you to Geoff Johnston for being the first person to consider the possibility of their fraud. I’m sure it would have come up soon thereafter but with his trendspotting abilities he was able to see through their web of deceit before anyone else.

Have you ever seen the movie The Burbs? If not, go rent it (even though I’m about to spoil the ending). A suburbanite and his two neighbors struggle to prove their paranoid theory that the new family in town is a front for a cannibalistic cult. In the climax of the movie we discover that said family is not cannibalistic but just really strange. Just before the credits roll and we’re ready to get up and leave we learn that it actually IS a family of cannibals after all!

I’m here to tell you that the Banner of Heaven is this family and that they are not only weird, but they are indeed cannibals… er, not who they say they are. I promise you that this blog-saga will end just like the movie. Probably not today, I’m sure they will still protest and beg you to believe that they’re real and some will continue to believe, but eventually the truth will be revealed. Now let’s open that trunk and see some skulls.

Before I start I must admit that I’m quite embarrassed that I believed for as long as I did. Sure I always had doubts, I always felt something was off, but up until this last week I never allowed myself to be fully convinced because if by some slim chance that they were real, a part of me didn’t want to dismiss their problems and struggles. That’s the part they took advantage of.

In this post we will do four things: 1) prove through examples of real and anecdotal evidence that each of the permabloggers is a character invented by someone else, 2) speculate as to who is writing each character, 3) speculate on the different conspiracy theories and 4) discuss the ethics of doing such an experiment.

(Disclaimer: This is written as if I were talking about real people (the permabloggers) for ease of understanding in this discussion, but I’m really talking about the person writing the character.)


Their very first post
I didn’t read this introduction until just recently. Too bad, I might have picked up on the fraud much earlier. A quick excerpt:

“[Bloggers] blog for various reasons, that among these are to sound smart, to argue with total strangers, and to advance and defend ideas that for the most part they came up with all by themselves—that to accomplish these purposes group blogs are instituted upon the ‘net.”

They’re not talking about other group blogs out there, they’re talking about themselves. Also, when you read it consider the tone. Which of the permabloggers could possibly have written it? Jenn? Miranda? Mari? Sorry, none of them have ever been so confident. Aaron? Yeah right, everything is spelled and punctuated correctly. The ONLY one capable of writing it is Septimus. However, look at comment #11, he thinks Miranda wrote it. And since then where’s the vitriol toward other blogs? There’s none.

The “God’s Army” fallacy
The movie God’s Army follows a missionary through some experiences in his first couple months on the mission. They included an apostate roommate, his companion dying, a miraculous healing, teaching prostitutes, gaining a testimony, meeting his future wife, and baptizing an eternal investigator (among other things). That’s fine and dandy because all those things have happened to missionaries before, but not all to one missionary in a matter of a couple months.

Banner of Heaven is full of this same type of heightened drama. Sure there’s drama elsewhere in the Bloggernacle (can anyone say SSM?) but it’s not all on the same blog to the same people within 6 months. This leads me to…

General lack of forthrightness
Calling yourself Ned Flanders or RoastedTomatoes and discussing your real life is one thing. Giving yourself a normal (but not yours) name, posting a normal (but not yours) picture and telling stories (but not real) is a completely different thing. They admitted to fake names only when pressed. Some have said “partial” fake names, others don’t even know if Septimus is a real or fake name. Then the pictures. Are we to believe there are that many good-looking people who blog, let alone in one place? Sure, Samuel Clemens had a pseudonym, but none of you are Mark Twain.

Supposedly the blog leader. Not very experienced at improv or just too many coincidences. Living in a place with nary a member, but we’re supposed to believe that the random social worker he gets sent to for his psychotic break incident just happens to be a member of his ward where he is posing as an investigator? When Ned Flanders made a joke about Dale and him dating the very next post was about Dale and him going out dancing. He’s been lying all along with the sister missionaries, why should we believe him?

I like the Miranda character. It’s been fun to read her posts and be appalled by all that she discloses about her relationship with her husband. It’s also been interesting to read NOT A SINGLE WORD about her children (except that her husband stole money from the children’s clothing fund to buy an xbox which she in turn sold on Craigslist and bought herself MAC make-up). I can’t think of a single other Mormon-mom-blogger who has kids that never mentions them. Also, I’m quite sure there is no Craigslist local to Lewiston Idaho, nor is there a MAC store or counter there either.

For the most part has been a fun character to follow. Lost jobs, bad callings, working for The Man, “shelving” and questionable proposals. The normal life of a married male Manhattan attorney… er… I seem to be getting ahead of myself. I mean it’s normal for a NYC single sister. “I’m so glad we found each other. I hope we can be like this forever.” “WHAT DOES THAT MEAN… does he want to get married?!?” I’m sorry, nobody living in New York City is this naive.

Aaron Cox
Read ANY SINGLE ONE of his posts. That’s enough of an explanation.

The package incident is odd, but not enough for a solid case.

A lapsed Quaker living among Mormons. Too convenient. Sorry man.


I will allow the SnarkerNacle to speculate (with my own opinion in brackets):

Todd Peterson, Stephen Carter, or Christopher Bigelow, one of the former Sugar Beet people. Is it that much of a coincidence the Sugar Beet falls into obscurity when the Blather of Heathens is spawned? The rambling discourses are entertaining and fabulously vivid, so whoever is writing them must be an old hand at this sort of thing. [That's good enough for me. The timing is uncanny.]

Steve Evans, Blather of Heathens got put onto the BCC blogroll rapidamente when so many others are ignored, he must be involved. She also posted to BCC, which Steve is the admin of, so he wouldn’t be exposing the tell-tale IP address leading back to him to some other blog admin. We have also always suspected him of being a closet cross-dresser anyway. [Not so sure. My guess is Sumer Evans. She still gets to do the feminist thing but with a twist.]

Lisa Bushman, Lisa adopts the character of a hopeless, hapless victim of circumstances, the antithesis of her own person. [Again, I disagree. I think it's Steve Evans. He's in New York and the only one who's "met" any of the characters (Jenn), but the details of the account are fuzzy and inconsistent. Also, she can go to Steve's Thanksgiving party on Thanksgiving but not the day after (knowing full well that I can go the day after but not Thanksgiving).]

Nate Oman, normally the most pretentious of the ethereally erudite T&S permabores, he takes on a persona almost completely the opposite: dim-witted, ignorant, and obtuse. But, the irritating arrogance persists, as does the terrible spelling. Hey, there is only so much you can cover up, or perhaps Nate is lampooning his own atrocious spelling in a self-depricating way. [Perhaps this is so. I just don't see Nate O. putting that much time into something so capritious. My guess is Ronan. It seems like the perfect project for him, something he'd love to write. DMI Dave Underhill is suspect as well.]

Aaron Brown, practically a non-member anyway, gets to act like he really is one. [A low blow by the SnarkerNacle. My take is that it's Jonathan Stapley. Maybe Bob or Logan.]

Rosalynde Welch, fun and clever, she adopts a completely drab persona who posts about the utterly bland. [Nah. I think it's FMHLisa. Opposites.]


General Bloggernacle Theory
It’s simply an amusing farce. Nothing more.

Rusty’s BoH Theory
It’s a writing experiment. Some bloggernaclers were bored and wanted to mix things up a bit so they took on characters and created this blog as a parody. Through nepotistic promotion (via BCC) combined with their high drama they became instant best-sellers. Like the movie Network they are predicting the future of the Bloggernacle and this is their version of that future.

The “Septimus” Theory
Septimus’ relationship/saga with the sister missionaries is a metaphor for the blog’s relationship with the rest its readers (continued lying about identity to be able to drag them/us along, ironically getting offended when others call his bluff, etc.). This is a brilliant idea.

The “Aaron Cox” Theory
Aaron Cox is a thought experiment. The writer was curious as to how Mormons would react to a modern day version of Joseph Smith. His lack of education, his physical strength, his bravado, his outrageous ideas on doctrine, his twisting of scripture to fit his interpretation, his claims of how to know if something is real. Again, another brilliant idea.

John Mansfield’s BoH Theory
“Some, such as myself, think it is all the work of one person practicing his writing skills, particularly the work of creating distinct characters and voices… Inviting experts on folklore to participate would, if this site is a hoax, be a sly joke on the part of its creator(s)… It often seems to be taunting its readers as to why they give credence to anything they read.”

Geoff Johnston’s BoH Theory
“In addition to the actual permanent bloggers here, these intrepid marketers have created a fictional ‘blogger’ here at BoH as well. Somebody got a picture of a younger brother or nephew and then y’all came up with a fake bio and voila! – “Aaron B. Cox” was created. Then they wrote a couple blatantly offensive posts in this new pen name in order to get lots of people coming back to see the squabbles that inevitably arose. (This proves that every group blog ought to have a villain.) Bravo to the BoH marketing wizards for this ingenious marketing stunt!


We can react to all this information in basically two ways: 1) we can be offended and/or hurt or 2) we can laugh about it.

The easiest reason to get offended is that they have been lying to us for six months. Not just one big lie in the name of an experiment, but countless smaller lies in comments, emails and personal exchanges.

It’s easy to feel like the gullible kid who believes anything he’s told. How can you not feel stupid if you know that those in on the joke are getting a big round of laughs every time you give a serious response or show that you care (about a fake entity)? They take the trust we give them, kick it around, and then laugh at us over root beers.

Another reason we can be bothered is that it has made us question our blogger-friends. There isn’t a person here who I haven’t considered was a part of this (as I too have been accused). I’m not a big fan of questioning friends and them lying to me in response.

Laugh about it
Reason #1: it’s brilliant. How can you not love this blog? The drama, the outrageousness of the writing, all of the offense given and taken, the consistency of content, all of it! Regardless of how it all plays out we should give them props for doing such a fantastic job entertaining us for the past six months.

Thanks Banner of Heaven, it’s been a real trip!

(I want to thank A Random John, Kurt, Steve Evans and Ned Flanders for their direct help and Geoff Johnston and John Mansfield for their indirect help. A large portion of the ideas contained herein are those of these contributors. They’ve done much of the research and speculation and have been a big part of this project.)


  1. In their defense, Miranda knows an awful lot about the Potlatch toilet paper factory in Lewiston, Idaho to be simply making it up.

    I do think that the photos are fake. Aaron Cox’s photo in particular has an embedded copyright from Duke University in the year 2000. It strongly resembles photos from various team rosters that I was able to find on the internet including the blue gradient on some and the copyright on others. Unfortunately I am unable to locate the exact photo of our favorite constipated/mean friend. If anyone can find it on the web somewhere I’d be interested.

    Comment by a random John — October 24, 2005 @ 4:42 pm

  2. Did any of the guys you think might be Septimus serve a mission in Chile or have any connections to Chile?

    I say this simply because his (her) use of typical Chilean slang used by missionaries is probably too good for a casual Spanish speaker.

    Comment by Mike G — October 24, 2005 @ 5:07 pm

  3. I think the Chile thing is real. Could that be Aaron Brown? But I don’t think that Aaron writes as well as Septimus.

    Comment by a random John — October 24, 2005 @ 5:14 pm

  4. Could be–there are alot of Chileans where he went in Argentina, and it’s possible talking with them or a Chilean comp could’ve taught him that stuff.

    Comment by Mike G — October 24, 2005 @ 5:21 pm

  5. It just hit me. What if Septimus is my own brother!!! He writes well, went to Chile, and is found of odd online pseudonyms…

    Comment by a random John — October 24, 2005 @ 5:31 pm

  6. Thanks for assuming that I’m real.

    Comment by RoastedTomatoes — October 24, 2005 @ 5:40 pm

  7. I am happy to attest in any fashion that I have not had relations with that blog, Banner of Heaven.

    Comment by J. Stapley — October 24, 2005 @ 5:48 pm

  8. Come on Rusty, aren’t you taking this all too seriously? Banner is a fun site and more real than any of the warmed over, pseudointellectual, apologist crap served up by the big three. The fakery part makes for entertainment, something sorely lacking in much of the bloggernacle.

    Comment by Steve EM — October 24, 2005 @ 5:51 pm

  9. Steve EM, this IS fun. Conspiracy theories are always fun, especially when everyone knows it’s fake, speculation as to who did it and why always makes for good entertainment. Do you not find the whole “who is behind this thing?” fun?

    By the way, like I stated in the post, I don’t expect this will make a dent in their schedule. They will probably continue to play the part until they feel like their readership is waning or that the drama is past its prime.

    My advice: Stay tuned. I think this post will only fan the flames.

    Comment by Rusty — October 24, 2005 @ 6:03 pm

  10. Steve EM,

    It is true that it is a fun blog. It is also true that trying to prove that it is fake is fun for some of us. Also there seems to be something a bit dishonest about using fake opinions and characters to elicit real responses. If we were all in on the joke from the start that would be one thing, but we weren’t so it is a bit mean. I for one would love to know the story behind it and then keep my mouth closed, but that doesn’t appear to be an option since it takes more than my effort to figure it out, so I have to resort to conspiring with the likes of Rusty against the Bannerite conspirators.

    Comment by a random John — October 24, 2005 @ 6:03 pm

  11. Actually, Rusty, the truth is clear:

    YOU are BoH, you sly fiend.

    Comment by Ronan — October 24, 2005 @ 6:04 pm

  12. I like the “Aaron Cox Theory.” There are quite a few parallels between Aaron and JS but I had never thought about it till now. Uneducated, earthy, terrible spelling, enthusiasm for polygamy, and a proclivity for speaking for God. My hat is off to whoever thought of that.

    I think John Mansfield may be on to something as well. Just the other day Septimus ended a comment with a cryptic “Let those who have ears hear.” It was a very Aaron Cox thing to say.

    Comment by NFlanders — October 24, 2005 @ 6:11 pm

  13. et tu, Rusty?

    I hate the idea of being associated with BoH, but even worse — Jenn???

    Here are my theories:

    SeptimusH: Random John. Technical expertise, a penchant for the kooky side of the bloggernacle. It makes sense — someone there has some real ability with WordPress and lots of time on their hands.

    Miranda PJ: Rosalynde Welch. It comes just a little too close to reality for my taste. Plus, her perfectionism is such that she’d research out the toilet paper factory, etc. with ease.

    Aaron Cox: Kaimi Wenger. Few people have the gift for going completely over the top in the way Kaimi does. I believe BoH is the place for him to write all the posts that get taken down immediately at T&S.

    Mari: Rusty Clifton. They have to have a good designer, and Rusty is the resident expert. It wouldn’t be too hard for him to conjure up some suburban housewife.

    Greg: Ronan. It seems his type, frankly, to pretend to be a non-mormon sucked into the fray by his girlfriend.

    Jenn: well, besides ME, I think the best candidate for Jenn is Davis Bell. He lives in New York, attends a singles ward, is desperately lonely, etc., etc. Few people would be able to write such a life of sucky naivete like Davis. Alternatively, maybe this is the elusive Chelsea Grimmus from Millennial Star!

    Comment by Steve Evans — October 24, 2005 @ 6:15 pm

  14. Ronan,

    Why is it that the people that are suspected of participating in this always turn things around and accuse the accuser? Do you guys have a set of rules for how to react when someone suggests that you might be in on it? I’d love to see the guidelines you’ve set up because it has worked well for some time now.

    Comment by a random John — October 24, 2005 @ 6:16 pm

  15. Steve,

    This is very odd considering that you’ve told a bunch of people that you know Jenn, including me in a face to face meeting. Either you are making that up or you have something more to offer here.

    Also, as I’ve said before, if I had a Mormon blog it would be based on slashcode.

    Comment by a random John — October 24, 2005 @ 6:19 pm

  16. RJ, my friend,
    I’m trembling in my boots, you sly Fox.

    Comment by Ronan — October 24, 2005 @ 6:24 pm

  17. Ronan,

    Whatever! You know that little old me has no power when faced with a conspiracy of this magnitude!

    Comment by a random John — October 24, 2005 @ 6:27 pm

  18. aRJ, you are pretty good at deflecting blame away from yourself.

    I’ve told everyone that I’ve met Jenn, because that’s what happened – a girl came up to me one week after sacrament and presented herself as Jenn from Banner of Heaven. She looked vaguely like that photo, but that’s all I’ve got. Since then I have become increasingly convinced that I have not in fact met “Jenn,” only someone posing as her. That’s another reason I am starting to suspect Davis, who could have easily put up one his friends for the task. With a permablogger on board from a ‘reputable’ blog, they have 10x the credibility.

    Comment by Steve Evans — October 24, 2005 @ 6:30 pm

  19. No slight to the technical abilities of BoH – you gotta know something to run a blog – but no one at BoH designed this blog.

    Comment by Eric Russell — October 24, 2005 @ 6:31 pm

  20. No wonder it looks so sweet!

    Comment by a random John — October 24, 2005 @ 6:33 pm

  21. Someone should run an analysis on word usage and style to determine similarities and such. For example:

    Miranda, BoH post on 16 June, used the word “and” 16 times in 532 words, averaging one ‘and’ every 33 words. Nine occurrences functioned as a list; seven occurrences as connecting two ideas/sentences. Of the seven, six ‘and’s were proceeded by a comma and one wasn’t.

    Steve Evans, BCC post on 17 June, used the word “and” 10 times in 415 words, averaging one ‘and’ every 41.5 words. Five occurrences in lists, three as a connector (2 with comma, one without), and two ‘and’s in parentheticals.

    This doesn’t conclude anything, obviously. But it seems like Miranda and Steve are not the same person, just judging by the usage of ‘and’.

    (It is interesting to note that not only did BoH get a link on BCC very quickly, but that BCC also announced that it was adding BoH to the sidebar TWICE (on June 1 and June 22))

    Comment by Pris — October 24, 2005 @ 7:17 pm

  22. I’m waiting for someone to use chiasmus to prove that Banner of Heaven is really the book of Mormon.

    Comment by Steve Evans — October 24, 2005 @ 7:23 pm

  23. Steve claims to have added them quickly because he was getting a lot of traffic from there, which seems almost impossible to have happen in a single day.

    Comment by a random John — October 24, 2005 @ 7:24 pm

  24. Steve Evans,

    And we are all waiting for you to categorically and unequivocally deny that you and your wife are neither “Jenn” nor “Miranda”. Care to do so? When I speculated that you were Prudence McPrude, you said “Why don’t you just ask a guy?”, or something to that effect. OK, so now I am asking you straight up. How about a straight up answer, Mr & Mrs Evans?

    Comment by Kurt — October 24, 2005 @ 8:46 pm

  25. I demand a recount. I think someone suggested that the site was a parody even before Mr. Stapley. When I try to find it, I notice that many posts from early June are missing on the site. How deep does the rabbit hole go?

    Comment by mulder — October 24, 2005 @ 8:50 pm

  26. Mulder meant Mr. Johnston, not Mr. Stapley, of course.

    Comment by scully — October 24, 2005 @ 8:59 pm

  27. Alright, I admit it. It’s all me.


    Comment by Susan M — October 24, 2005 @ 9:16 pm

  28. I thought Scully and Mulder might indeed be correct. But I made my comment in the afternoon of June 4 and couldn’t find an earlier comment on the subject. In the morning of June 5 John Mansfield said at another post:

    “This web site is coming to resemble a hoax, so I’ll play along.”

    Kudos to John for the thought but it apparently was not before mine. (BTW – Here’s hoping Hulk will not smash you with a nearby volkwagon Mansfield!)

    Comment by Geoff J — October 24, 2005 @ 9:25 pm

  29. Kurt: “And we are all waiting for you to categorically and unequivocally deny that you and your wife are neither “Jenn” nor “Miranda”.”

    Consider it given, Kurt. Sumer’s certainly not involved, even though I can’t speak on her behalf.

    Comment by Steve Evans — October 24, 2005 @ 9:57 pm

  30. …..and since when have I ever posed as Prudence McPrude???

    Comment by Steve Evans — October 24, 2005 @ 10:00 pm

  31. I remember wondering what was going on when Rosalynde said “shit”, though it was later edited. I believe in the first day or so of the banner. Good thing they reined her in or else it would have spun out of control way too fast. I remember thinking that either she was in on some sort of joke or that DKL was posing as her and mocking her. I believe the “admiring my phd” post is still up though.

    Comment by a random John — October 24, 2005 @ 10:02 pm

  32. Steve,
    I believe the point wasn’t that you posed as Prudence but that when asked you gave hints as to who was.

    Comment by a random John — October 24, 2005 @ 10:03 pm

  33. Johnston: We won’t know for sure until the missing posts from early June are restored. History must be served.

    Comment by Scully — October 24, 2005 @ 10:14 pm

  34. Scully, your skills have slackened. I found it and here it is: http://bannerofheaven.weblogs.us/archives/25#comment-220

    I’m lost here. What is DHMO-style parody and what isn’t? Rush Limbaugh writes books?

    foxforcefive — June 3, 2005 @ 6:19pm

    Comment by mulder — October 24, 2005 @ 10:18 pm

  35. Did I just stumble into the Twilight Zone?

    I’ve never read Banner of Heaven.

    Comment by D. Fletcher — October 24, 2005 @ 10:25 pm

  36. Rusty: “I’d like their feedback but I’m not holding my breath considering not a single one of them have EVER left a comment here at Nine-Moons.”

    What about this?

    Comment by Eric Russell — October 24, 2005 @ 10:26 pm

  37. Another significant passage from the Introduction, this is the closing line, “that this blog, the Banner of Heaven, shall give a new birth of fresh perspective—and that posts about real people, by real people, and for real people will not perish from the earth.”

    Indeed, it appears as if the joke has been on all of us from the very beginning.

    Comment by Eric Russell — October 24, 2005 @ 10:31 pm

  38. Here is thepage two of the June posts you missed Scully.

    BTW — That “foxforcefive” comment is far too cryptic to count as a call out on the blog. In fact I don’t think that was even the intention of that comment.

    Comment by Geoff J — October 24, 2005 @ 10:45 pm

  39. Au contraire, Geoff.

    Earlier in the thread, Rosalynde had said that Miranda might be interested in a famous hoax. Then “foxforcefive” responded that he or she could not tell which parts of the BOH site itself are a similar such parody, and which are not. It definitely wasn’t a bill of particulars, but it was a clear suggestion that much of the writing seemed like a parody.

    Comment by Skinner — October 24, 2005 @ 10:54 pm

  40. But it’s been so fun!

    Comment by kristen j — October 24, 2005 @ 10:58 pm

  41. “I’d like their feedback but I’m not holding my breath considering not a single one of them have EVER left a comment here at Nine-Moons.”

    Hi, Rusty. Um, just checking in. I’m real, I swear. I think I can provide witnesses if necessary, and we can link backwards to somebody whose reality is not in dispute. Like the Kevin Bacon Game.

    Comment by Matt Bowman — October 24, 2005 @ 11:10 pm

  42. That’s it. I can’t take this anymore. I confess! It’s me! I’m responsible for all the characters at BofH. This site is all I do all day. You’ve found me out. Lucky you.

    Aaron B

    Comment by Aaron Brown — October 24, 2005 @ 11:10 pm

  43. I’m actually relieved that Aaron B. Cox isn’t real. I was beginning to be attracted…

    Comment by D. Fletcher — October 24, 2005 @ 11:31 pm

  44. Matt Bowman! I’m glad you stopped by. You are near the top of my list of candidates for site writers actually.

    Here are my guesses.

    1. The site is the brainchild of DKL. Ironically it may have all been started by a post J Max Wilson put up at ABEV last Spring. See here.

    DKL is listed as “Yabadadoo Helper” there and makes some very telling comments I think.

    2. I suspect Ronan is probably Greg.

    3. I think one or both of the Frandsen sisters must be involved. I think Rosalynde probably accidentally posted a crass post under her real name early on. (As others have discovered, that is an easy mistake to make).

    4. But there are probably a few others not regulars in the ‘nacle involved too. My top suspects are the 3 latest guest posters, Mike Van Wagenen, Matt Bowman, and Alan Morrell. They are experts in “Mormon tricks, pranks, (and) hoaxes” after all.

    5. What’s up with Steve’s “I know Jenn… No wait! Some girl I met once told me she was Jenn” in this thread?

    6. I think I am releasing Aaron Brown from my list of suspect as of this evening. I remember DKL telling Prudence to *&#^ off at the site. I think Prudence was solo and independent of BoH

    Anyway, that is my current theory (much different than my first theory quoted in the post.) I do really like the Aaron as Joseph character though (although Joseph didn’t use Truman Madsen tapes as his primary source of authority).

    Comment by Geoff J — October 24, 2005 @ 11:43 pm

  45. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. I want to to believe in Banner of Heaven really badly, but I love a conspiracy theory as much as the next guy (uh, gal)!

    Comment by meems — October 24, 2005 @ 11:57 pm

  46. Geoff’s ideas sound good, but I can’t help think Steve Evans is more involved than any of us know. No WONDER Kulturblog is in the toilet…

    Comment by D. Fletcher — October 25, 2005 @ 12:00 am

  47. Anyone notice that the Bloggernacle Times went on “summer hiatus” when BoH started to heat up?

    Comment by a random John — October 25, 2005 @ 12:21 am

  48. Given that the forcefoxfive comment was a response the the Rosalynde DHMO website comment I don’t think it can count as a discovery as Rosalynde was aware of the hoax prior to it even starting. Also I think it is evident that the comment was a cryptic inside joke. Finally, it isn’t at all clear who forcefoxfive is. It is probable that FFF was in on it as well.

    Thus in mind mind, Geoff retains the lead.

    BTW, the fact that so many people have known about this from the start just makes it all the more amazing. They are all laughing at us! Laughing I tell you!

    Comment by a random John — October 25, 2005 @ 1:07 am

  49. Okay, Eric, you got me. I had forgotten about that comment by Septimus. Yesterday I did a search on the site for any commenter of any of the names and none of them checked out. I wonder why that didn’t show up.

    It sounds like I should have contacted Geoff again before posting this, his theory seems pretty good. Those guest posters are perfect.

    See Steve EM, this is FUN!!!

    Yet we still haven’t heard from any of the BoH characters yet. You’d think they would try to defend themselves a little more than “geez, I wish you wouldn’t think we’re fake” on EVERY SINGLE POST of theirs. Come out little BoHers, come out wherever you are….

    Comment by Rusty — October 25, 2005 @ 1:25 am

  50. BoH is the BoM!

    Comment by Goofus — October 25, 2005 @ 2:18 am

  51. Steve Evans,

    You sure do have a muddled memory, Steve. You honestly cannot remember how the PMcP thing unfolded, or are you just deliberately obfuscating? I guess youre confused by all the faux personalities you find yourself among.

    Thanks for exonerating your wife. Now, how about yourself? Are you posting at Banner of Heaven as either “Miranda” or “Jenn”? Please respond in an unequivocal manner.

    Comment by Kurt — October 25, 2005 @ 7:02 am

  52. I am not in any way involved in Banner of Heaven. I pinky swear.

    And there is no question in my mind that it’s fake. The authors overshot; it was believable for a little while, but they got greedy. Still, it’s kind of funny. Although really wierd that someone would invest that kind of time.

    Comment by Davis Bell — October 25, 2005 @ 7:11 am

  53. Rusty said:

    Then the pictures. Are we to believe there are that many good-looking people who blog, let alone in one place?

    Well, certainly not at 9 Moons!

    I went for it hook, line, and sinker.

    Comment by Mark IV — October 25, 2005 @ 8:08 am

  54. The creator(s) of Banner of Heaven may not be anyone we’ve ever heard of in the other Mormon web logs. The nominal population of the Church is twelve million people. It could even be the work of someone not especially connected with the Church who wanted to test his ability to create Mormon characters as a way to stretch himself. Few of the posts show any deep understanding of the Church or the Gospel; the Aaron B. Cox posts, though, do show some knowledge of what they are parodying. At any rate, finding information needed to portray people who are not themselves is something writers do, unless they’re complete narcissists.

    Many times I’ve run across advice from veteran writers to novices that they need to write, write, write every day. So a blog like Banner of Heaven is something an aspiring novelist might try to build experience pounding out the pages. I hope it’s not all she’s doing.

    Steve Evans’ connection with Banner of Heaven is curious, though. Often it has seemed to me that the Banner of Heaven is mocking most especially Times and Seasons more than the Mormon web blogs in general, and Steve Evans displays a special animosity for that web site and also no bounds for his internet enthusiasm.

    Comment by John Mansfield — October 25, 2005 @ 8:28 am

  55. Well, certainly not at 9 Moons!

    So you saw a picture of my dad, huh? :)

    Goofus, please expound. We’re all about conspiracy theories here but we need to know a little more.

    Comment by Rusty — October 25, 2005 @ 8:39 am

  56. Goofus = Aaron Brown = Aaron B. Cox = Prudence McPrude

    Comment by Kurt — October 25, 2005 @ 8:48 am

  57. Steve Evans, Blather of Heathens got put onto the BCC blogroll rapidamente when so many others are ignored, he must be involved.

    Good point. I’ve never been able to crack the BCC blogroll …

    Comment by Stephen M (Ethesis) — October 25, 2005 @ 8:57 am

  58. I am not Greg.

    As a blog, BoH really got started with their acrostical lies when I was on my summer hiatus in England. My dad’s dial-up was not conducive to blogging.

    My wife tells me that if my rampant polyblogy has gone this far, then, well…. So, if I’m Greg I’m keeping it secret from The Wife. I’m not that naughty.

    Golly, I like the outside-the-bloggernacle idea, but there is also one thing to consider: serial killers love publicity.

    Really, you get bet that the BoH conspirators are loving this post. Why aren’t they commenting? Well, of course they are: the culprits are probably among those commenting on this thread. The guilty, my dear Watson, are among us.

    Even now…

    Guys, please get over this lunacy.

    Comment by Ronan — October 25, 2005 @ 9:16 am

  59. But Kurt and Rusty, as I mentioned over at Banner, Aaron’s B can’t stand for brown; the character’s straight.

    Comment by Steve EM — October 25, 2005 @ 9:40 am

  60. The person playing Miranda has connections to the D.C. area. Appalachian Outfitters, Goshen Boy Scout camp, Seminary Road exit, Eisenhower Avenue, etc. Pretty specific details there.


    Comment by Sleuth — October 25, 2005 @ 9:46 am

  61. I think the strongest evidence we have so far that something is amiss is ARJ’s discovery of the Duke copyright. I found that it also mentions that it was taken by Jeffrey A. Camarati, who does Duke’s athletics.

    What is Aaron wearing in that picture and what sport is it? I can’t find any pictures that have that same uniform – most of them are in suits.

    Comment by Eric Russell — October 25, 2005 @ 10:03 am

  62. I think the Aaron writer just lifted the photo from the internet. I feel bad for the real person of who that photo is because there are now so many people out there who have bad associations with his face.

    Comment by Rusty — October 25, 2005 @ 10:10 am

  63. Eric,

    Thanks! I too think that it is the strongest evidence yet presented. If it were all I had then there’d be some room for doubt. I’ve gotten a confirmation now though from an inside source which leaves no room for doubt. All that is left is assigning real names to fake ones.


    Why are you so limited in your questioning of Steve?

    Comment by a random John — October 25, 2005 @ 10:21 am

  64. What they should have done with the headshots is morphed a few images together. That way there wouldn’t be a single real person out there that would be a victim of a misrepresentation as vile as that of Aaron Cox.

    Comment by a random John — October 25, 2005 @ 10:24 am

  65. Hmm. Interesting. Just a quick check on BYU’s alumni site shows no evidence that any of these supposed BYU grads exist.

    Comment by Mimi — October 25, 2005 @ 10:25 am

  66. I just find it funny how devoted Kurt is to attacking me. This all stems from days of yore when I defended Aaron Brown over Kurt at BCC (big surprise that I would defend one of my permabloggers over him!). Since then, even when I agree with him, he has this weird kind of vendetta. His comments on this thread are reflective of this continued weird obsession. Even when I have publicly denied involvement, he continues in his weirdness.

    oh well. I guess I should be honored to have a stalker.

    Comment by Steve Evans — October 25, 2005 @ 10:38 am

  67. Mimi, they’ve admitted to using fake names.

    Random John, an inside source? Come on man, you can’t tease us like that.

    Comment by Eric Russell — October 25, 2005 @ 10:41 am

  68. I don’t think this thread is particularly productive, but John Mansfield has made some comments I’d like to address before I move on.

    John M.: “Steve Evans’ connection with Banner of Heaven is curious, though. Often it has seemed to me that the Banner of Heaven is mocking most especially Times and Seasons more than the Mormon web blogs in general, and Steve Evans displays a special animosity for that web site and also no bounds for his internet enthusiasm.”

    John, I don’t have a special animosity for T&S – many of the permabloggers there are good friends of mine. I want to make it clear that I like T&S and think very highly of them. If I mock them often in my zeitgeist, it’s because I’m poking fun at friends and expect better stuff from such a talented group.

    As for my ‘connection’ with Banner of Heaven, my initial enthusiasm for them maybe deserves some explanation. At BCC we received several incoming hits from them early on, as well as some emails from the bloggers. The design of their site and the initial traffic were behind our linking to them. I can now see this was a mistake, which I will rectify by removing the link. I hope this satisfies the strange conspiracy theories on this thread.

    Comment by Steve Evans — October 25, 2005 @ 10:48 am

  69. arJ,

    I am being very specific and limited because otherwise Steve Evans would use any latitude whatsoever to avoid the subject. We was willing to exempt his wife, but made no comment on himself. I dont believe Steve would flat out lie, but I do believe he would obfuscate, just as Aaron Brown did above. Peel the onion one layer at a time, and see where Steve stops answering questions. So far, he hasnt responded to the last one, so its safe to assume he is either Jenn or Miranda, probably Jenn.

    Comment by Kurt — October 25, 2005 @ 10:49 am

  70. Steve Evans,

    Enough with the lame accusations, answer the question you are avoiding. Youre just trying to obfuscate with personal attacks.

    Answer the question: Are you posting at Banner of Heaven as either “Miranda” or “Jenn”? Please respond in an unequivocal manner regarding your person in specific, which you have not been doing. You have only exonerated your wife, not yourself.

    Comment by Kurt — October 25, 2005 @ 10:53 am

  71. Meet Aaron Fenton, former goalie for the Duke lacrosse team.

    Aaron Fenton

    Comment by Sleuth — October 25, 2005 @ 11:07 am

  72. From the photo, Aaron must be a very intense guy.

    Comment by D. Fletcher — October 25, 2005 @ 11:10 am

  73. Sleuth,

    You are my hero!

    Comment by a random John — October 25, 2005 @ 11:17 am

  74. Kurt -

    The Snarkernacle not keeping you busy enough? I’m looking forward to reading more of your posts over there. This fracas about BoH is so yesterday. And I doubt Steve is anyone but himself. It’s enough to keep up with one fake personality on the blogs, let alone two. And let alone a woman!

    Comment by Anon — October 25, 2005 @ 11:17 am

  75. Way to go Sleuth! I never put the word “aaron” into the search field because I assumed that was made up. But there you go. Good one.

    Comment by Eric Russell — October 25, 2005 @ 11:18 am

  76. I’m as eager as the rest of you to figure out who all these bloggers are (particularly Miranda, she drives me nuts), but don’t you think it’d be a bit like ruining Christmas morning by sneaking a peek at your presents a week before? I want to find out where Jenn and SeptimusH are headed and where they’ll end up before anyone comes clean.

    Comment by Susan M — October 25, 2005 @ 11:19 am

  77. Meet my new desktop background image:
    Aaron B. Cox

    Comment by a random John — October 25, 2005 @ 11:19 am

  78. Our favorite false prophet

    Comment by a random John — October 25, 2005 @ 11:30 am

  79. Anonymous coward (most likely Steve E or Aaron B),

    Please see this.


    Comment by Kurt — October 25, 2005 @ 11:31 am

  80. Kurt – COME ON!! You are the mastermind behind the Snarkernacle. Your comments about Crystal and Aaron Brown on BCC a few months ago sold you out. It’s obvious. But funny!

    Comment by Anon — October 25, 2005 @ 11:33 am

  81. “Matt Bowman! I’m glad you stopped by. You are near the top of my list of candidates for site writers actually.”

    Sorry, Geoff. Alas, I just don’t have the time for such a thing – though I’m faintly amused by this uproar, so perhaps I have the right temperment. Since Kurt seems to want flat denials, consider this one. The extent of my involvement in BoH is what you see on the 13 Questions post, plus a couple scattered comments back in the summer. I feel very safe including Mike and Alan in that as well – they, unlike I, are completely unfamiliar with the bloggernacle.

    Comment by Matt Bowman — October 25, 2005 @ 11:35 am

  82. Aaron Fenton’s twin brother, Ben Fenton, also played LaCrosse for Duke, along with older brother Zach.

    Comment by Brother Joseph — October 25, 2005 @ 11:39 am

  83. His brothers aren’t nearly so mean.

    Comment by a random John — October 25, 2005 @ 11:41 am

  84. Problem now is, Aaron will just admit to using a fake photo for whatever reason and we won’t have gained any real ground.

    Comment by Eric Russell — October 25, 2005 @ 11:48 am

  85. Anonymous Coward,

    I’ve been banned off BCC for awhile, I dont ever recall talking to Crystal on there at all. My first recollection of any direct contact with her at all was on MOF. I was banned off BCC way before then. Would you care to provide a link of the alleged incriminating comments? Even if they do exist, isnt it obvious whoever is writing it is reading those comments just as you are?

    While I am flattered to be branded a “mastermind”, I am afraid I have to defer the honor to another. Why is it obvious? I have been a target of derision on there. People have speculated that its me, arJ, and others.

    But, regardless, anonymous coward, (most likely Steve E or Aaron B) lets keep on topic shall we? Would either of you like to categorically and unequivocally deny you post to BofH under one of the pseudonyms? No? OK.

    Comment by Kurt — October 25, 2005 @ 11:48 am

  86. Hey guys, let’s avoid the personal attacks. We’re not an Aaron thread at Banner of Heaven or anything.

    Comment by Rusty — October 25, 2005 @ 11:51 am

  87. Kurt – did you or did you not say that Crystal was a brownnoser to Steve or Aaron? I think you said this right before you were banned from BCC. I do not have access to BCC, so that should prove that I’m not Steve Evans.

    And I can’t speak directly for Steve or Aaron, but they usually have the balls to comment under their own names. Whereas, yes, I am a coward. But please do not shoot the messenger. I speak the truth.

    Comment by Anon — October 25, 2005 @ 11:54 am

  88. I’m with Susan M. What will become of Jenn and the Shelver? Will Septimus take my advice and go by a tie at target?

    I was seriously starting to care about Septimus. I’ve been hoping that he would send me an invitation to his wedding to Sister T.

    Now we will never know and I will have to go to “Days of Our Lives” or some other inferior trash for my drama.

    Ok Kurt, turn about is fair play. Are you the master mind behind Snarkernacle? I think you are!

    And please just answer the question honestly.

    Comment by kristen j — October 25, 2005 @ 11:54 am

  89. Well it has to be me since I haven’t been the target of derision there, have I?

    Comment by a random John — October 25, 2005 @ 11:55 am

  90. It really has to be me, since I left the *funniest comment* Septimus ever read.


    Comment by D. Fletcher — October 25, 2005 @ 11:58 am

  91. Kurt,

    I gotta tell ya, I think you’re the snarkernacker, too.

    Who else would have picked up on the Aaron Brown/BCC connection? The only time I’ve ever even mentioned Aaron (except for when I thought his post about giving talks in church was mean) was in our conversations in which I defended his actions as Prudence McPrude.

    But calling you the snarkernacker is not an insult. It’s a compliment.

    Comment by Crystal — October 25, 2005 @ 12:13 pm

  92. Anon,

    I just did a google site search and the only person I accused of brown nosing on bcc was AT/DKL. And, excuse me, but Aaron Brown is both Prudence McPrude and Goofus, he constantly uses pseudonyms.


    Before I answer your question, I want to know why you think its me.

    Comment by Kurt — October 25, 2005 @ 12:17 pm

  93. I’m reminded of the title of this post.

    Having said that, I can’t resist throwing out a couple possibilities for who’s behind Mr. Cox. Clark Goble tends to write in short sentences, and sometimes leaves off question marks. Also, Jeffrey Giliam (don’t get me wrong, I love the guy and his insightful posts) doesn’t always have the most polished writing, and has trouble limiting the length of his posts. Both have some interest in and knowledge of science, which Aaron sometimes treats. They both know doctrine, and Jeffrey in particular has a strong interest in doctrinal issues and the prerogatives of scientists and intellectuals. Also in some posts Jeffrey has taken an unusual interest in wrangling with Aaron.

    Comment by Christian Y. Cardall — October 25, 2005 @ 12:40 pm

  94. Kurt – methinks thou dost protest too much. And I would be disappointed if your unveiling as the Snarkernackler induces you to hang up your hat as the resident snarker. Snark away!

    However, it’s a bit risky to impugn a fellow blogger’s imaginary existence if you yourself are masquerading under a pseudonym.

    Comment by Anon — October 25, 2005 @ 1:07 pm

  95. As far as my post being Yabbadabbadoo helper, here’s what happened: I got an anonymous email requesting me to be a blogger on some blog that for disaffected Mormons. I clicked on the link in the email out of curiosity (I’m not a disaffected Mormon), and found myself added to the perma-blogger list of this blog. I contacted blogspot support because I did not want to be associated with it, and they said I couldn’t be removed. They suggested that I should change the name of my login, abandon it, and make a new ID. This is what I did, never supposing that it would also change the name of my previous blogspot posts.

    At any rate, John Fowles (or anyone that can remember) can vouch for the fact that I posted as Arturo Toscanini, my well known psuedonym at the time.

    blogspot has got some issues to work out in any case.

    It’s a mystery to me how anyone can think that I’m involved here. I have too few friends in the bloggernacle to be “in the know” on anything like this. Moreover, I posted as Arturo Toscanini for exactly 3 days before everyone in the bloggernacle was able to tell that it was me.

    I’ve just completed reading this entire thread for the first time. My reaction is this: These guys have been lying all year and this is the best you can come up with? This is not a very strong case. All I see is evidence that Aaron Cox wants to protect his identity–and if I had opinions like his I would, too. I don’t have any good reason to think they’re real (aside from the fact that they claim to be and they post), but I don’t think that you provide any good reasons to think that they’re fake.

    While we’re at it, who here can vouch for the fact that Rosalynde is not Kurt. Has anybody met Kurt? How about Steve EM. He’s been trumpeting his youthful disregard for chastity for months, and now he’s discovered that he’s got a kid? Any ideas about who he really is? Or how about Wilfried Decoo. I don’t recall any Belgiumites speaking up to vouch for him as one of their own.

    Comment by DKL — October 25, 2005 @ 1:30 pm

  96. The person who goes by Aaron may have wanted some anonymity, but he/she has created an entire false history, using someone else’s picture they got from Google images (unlike Septimus, who simply uses humorous images). If I were Aaron Fenton, I’d be pretty unhappy about this. And I’m pretty unhappy about it myself. On my board, we are all actual friends and call each other by our real names, even though different than our net names.

    If Kurt is the Snark, he is much funnier and better as the Snark than he is as Kurt.

    Comment by D. Fletcher — October 25, 2005 @ 1:44 pm

  97. Well kudos to you, D. Fletcher, for looking out for poor Aaron Fenton. I’ll bet he’s thrilled to know that among the Mormons, he’s got you on his side.

    I belonged to a secret society in college (a skull and bones type thing), and we published anonymous publications for fun. They expressed our real points of view (basically, anti-pc, neo-conservative), but being anonymous allowed us to be more pointed (and perhaps shrill) and added a bit of thrill to it. Of course, everyone was scandalized by the fact that we didn’t sign our names. I’m wondering if that’s what’s going on here with Aaron. If it is, then Aaron is a prominent bloggernacle figure, otherwise there’s no thrill in the anonymity.

    Comment by DKL — October 25, 2005 @ 1:52 pm

  98. DKL,

    Please leave me out of this. To set the record stright, I have 5 kids, ages 5-23 from my one and only marriage and only recently learned of a 25 year old son. Things are kind of a mess right now.

    Comment by Steve EM — October 25, 2005 @ 1:54 pm

  99. What I’d like to see is a thorough investigation of the alleged posters at BCC. I have serious doubts that “Steve Evans” really exists. I mean, which is more realistic, sister-missionary crushes or “playlist thunderdome”? I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’ve never heard of any of the alleged songs he’s refering to on his playlists. Sister missionary crushes, alas, are all too real. (I’ll miss you, Sister Peterson).

    I’m no expert, and perhaps you’re right on the provenance of BoH. (All DKL’s brain child, or perhaps Steve’s). But if BoH is indeed fake, then I have serious doubts about BCC too!!

    Comment by Steve's Evil Twin — October 25, 2005 @ 1:55 pm

  100. Steve Evans, the humorous lawyer, exists — I talk to him regularly, and see him at Church.

    Steve Evans, my hometeacher, doesn’t exist at all.

    Comment by D. Fletcher — October 25, 2005 @ 2:00 pm

  101. Now that you bring it up, Steve is obsessed with sister missionaries farting. I don’t know about you, but I am pretty sure that I have never heard a sister missionary fart and I’m not sure that such a thing even exists.

    Comment by a random John — October 25, 2005 @ 2:13 pm

  102. When BoH was created, they had a very complete blogroll, showing familiarity with the bloggernacle by categorization. I was really impressed by that and I thought it would be a cool new blog. But it just turned out kind of weird. And now maybe even that blogroll is suspicious too.

    Comment by Heather P. — October 25, 2005 @ 2:24 pm

  103. Me? Christian I’m flattered in a very non-complimented way. I know that my grammer is “unpolished” by c’mon.

    I was wondering if I would be blamed for Aaron’s character though, since (1) Aaron disappeared at the same time as I did, (2) our posts are long, (3) I do engage him a lot, (4) he actually says a lot of thing which I once believed, (5) he’s pretty concerned with doctrinal matter like I am and (6) I have never posted my picture, which would correlate well with Aaron’s fake pic.

    The problem is that I can’t think of anybody who would even consider inviting me to do a fake blog. I’m just not popular enough. It was a good idea though.

    Comment by Jeffrey Giliam — October 25, 2005 @ 3:09 pm

  104. Alrighty they, since everyone is so convinced I am the Bloggernacle Snarker (thanks everyone for the compliments, especially you Fletch, its touching, really it is), lets update the list, shall we:

    Jenn = Steve Evans

    Miranda = ???

    Septimus = Bob Caswell

    Aaron = Aaron Brown

    Mari = Rosalynde

    Greg = ???

    Who do people think are good fits.

    J.Stapley and Ronan have unequivocally excluded themselves, as have the “BofH wierd 3″, and its safe to assume they wouldnt flat out lie, so we have to fairly eliminate them from the roster of suspects. Steve Evans has refused to deny he is Jenn, and Aaron has admitted to being all of them without denying being any of them. Who is left? Suggestions?

    Oh, and DKL, I do exist, despite your wishes to the contrary, and I assure you, I am not Rosalynde. Next time you visit the Metro DC area let me know and I’ll take you out to dinner, someplace nice.

    Comment by Kurt — October 25, 2005 @ 3:11 pm

  105. Oh there is only one “new cool” blog!

    Kurt, I think you are “snarker” because you are intelligent, funny, snarky, and have a history with MoF and the Mormon Archipeligo that has not been a love fest exactly. So, that’s why I think it’s you. It’s not a bad thing and I hope you would continue even if you were found out.

    So, now are you going to answer my question?

    Comment by kristen j — October 25, 2005 @ 3:18 pm

  106. I don’t know hardly anyone well enough to hazard guesses. All of you but Anne blur together for me.

    Comment by Susan M — October 25, 2005 @ 3:21 pm

  107. What fun! I’d sort of like to string you along, Kurt, but since the unfettered search for truth, noble and independent, is my guiding imperative, I hereby categorically deny that I am any BoH permablogger.

    Although I am working on a guest post for the Banner at the moment, which should go up soon.

    Comment by Rosalynde — October 25, 2005 @ 3:24 pm

  108. Steve EM son? When did this happen? (Do we know that Steve EM is real?)

    By the way, congrats on putting togetherr a megathread, Rusty.

    Comment by Kaimi — October 25, 2005 @ 3:27 pm

  109. I’ve tried to be humorous about all this, but I’m feeling kinda bad about it, this afternoon. Some of the names being bandied about are my friends, or were.

    I guess, I’ll stick up for Rosalynde — I don’t think she’d do such a thing.

    Comment by D. Fletcher — October 25, 2005 @ 3:32 pm

  110. Kurt, your obsession with me is amusing. You want to hear some kind of unequivocal statement? How’s this: I AM NOT JENN! AND YOU ARE OBSESSED!

    Comment by Steve Evans — October 25, 2005 @ 3:43 pm

  111. How’s this: I AM NOT JENN!

    It’s true. Steve’s breasts are much smaller than Jenn’s.

    Comment by Bryce I — October 25, 2005 @ 3:58 pm

  112. If anyone has any doubts at this point that the banner is fake at this point, read the new post from Aaron. He is now officially declaring himself one of the brethren.

    Comment by john scherer — October 25, 2005 @ 4:00 pm

  113. I, for one, don’t think Steve is a likely suspect. Sure, he linked to BoH early, but he often does stuff like that before getting the full scoop. Just recently he highlighted a site that was little more than a pathetic list of mostly anti-Mormon links. Steve likes being first. Sometimes it backfires.

    Beyond that, I generally find the posts Steve writes interesting enough that I make it all the way through them (at least most of the time). I can’t recall ever reading an entire post at BoH. Either too long, too unfocused, too bizare, or too boring. If it is Steve, he’s consistently off his game when there.

    Comment by Randy B. — October 25, 2005 @ 4:02 pm

  114. Thus ends the dream of a real Aaron.

    Comment by Jeffrey Giliam — October 25, 2005 @ 4:14 pm

  115. Does this mean that Aaron is going to die soon? Will there be a Brigham to pick up and move out?

    Comment by a random John — October 25, 2005 @ 4:14 pm

  116. Yes, the new post by Aaron is AWESOME!!!

    My favorite line: “Rusty and your minions I wish I could thrash you in person.”

    Oh Aaron, if only I could fight a cartoon I would let you.

    Good times.

    Comment by Rusty — October 25, 2005 @ 4:17 pm

  117. Re: Aaron’s new post at BoH–

    It’s over. Come out. Pull back the curtain. It’s finished.

    Comment by Ronan — October 25, 2005 @ 4:18 pm

  118. This is great. It’s like someone organized a life-sized version of Bloggernacle Clue. Is there anyone who hasn’t been accused yet? Personally, I think it was Ms. Peacock, in the Conservatory, with the lead pipe.

    BTW, Sep kept mentioning the Clifton Six. Those will be the next T-shirts available on Zazzle.

    I think Jenn should be the easiest person to verify. We know what ward she’s in and what her calling is. At this point, I’d doubt that her name really is Jenn.

    This all feels like someone’s PhD psychology thesis to test how people determine what is real.

    Comment by NFlanders — October 25, 2005 @ 4:22 pm

  119. So Aaron is really… an old Kansas man?

    Comment by D. Fletcher — October 25, 2005 @ 4:23 pm

  120. Ned,

    This brings to mind the old cartoon, On the internet, nobody knows you’re a dog.

    Comment by a random John — October 25, 2005 @ 4:25 pm

  121. Ronan,

    Given that it is finished, why don’t you tell us what you know?

    Comment by a random John — October 25, 2005 @ 4:27 pm

  122. You know, after Aaron’s latest, whether it’s real or pretend…either way, it’s getting kind of sad.

    Comment by Eric Russell — October 25, 2005 @ 4:30 pm

  123. RJ: NOTHING!

    (That’s what so brilliant about this. Who cares about BoH? It’s all the accusations that are tickling me.)


    Comment by Ronan — October 25, 2005 @ 4:31 pm

  124. I have to say, Aaron’s last post was terrific. I say last, because I hope he goes the George Costanza route and bows out on a high note. He can’t top: “Joseph destroyed the press in Nauvoo;
    May the Lord destroy Rusty’s wordpress too.”

    Great stuff.

    Comment by NFlanders — October 25, 2005 @ 4:33 pm

  125. What surprises me is the silence of Miranda through all of this.

    Comment by john scherer — October 25, 2005 @ 4:34 pm

  126. Aaron is definitely not a dog. At least Aaron Fenton isn’t.

    Kurt? Hello? Please don’t ignore Kristen. To use your own words: “would you like to categorically and unequivocally deny” that you are involved with the Snarkernacle?

    Pink IS the new blog, by the way.

    Comment by Anon — October 25, 2005 @ 4:39 pm

  127. Yeah Ned, it’s going to be tough to top that. Classic.

    Comment by Rusty — October 25, 2005 @ 4:41 pm

  128. I’m actually kind of flattered to have been among the suspects – a list, at this point, that is a veritable who’s who of the bloggernacle. Why hasn’t anyone accused Jim Faulconer of being Jenn yet?

    (And with a title! If Mike, Alan and I ever want to start a group blog, the Weird Three is a better name than some.)

    Comment by Matt Bowman — October 25, 2005 @ 4:45 pm

  129. Rusty: Oh Aaron, if only I could fight a cartoon I would let you.

    I’ve long thought BoH was the ‘nacle version of “Who Framed Roger Rabbit” where real people get to interact with cartoon characters. I say we lobby to rename the site “Toon Town”

    Comment by Geoff J — October 25, 2005 @ 4:45 pm

  130. My theory is that Kurt’s Mom is actually Prudence McPrude, and that we are periodically treated to an intra-family squabble. How my name got wrapped up in that whole mess I have no idea.

    And to reiterate, I am all of the BoH permabloggers rolled into one hilarious, profound, verbose self. Why doesn’t anybody believe me? It’s like I’m Gwyneth Paltrow in “Proof,” and nobody thinks I can do the math.

    Aaron B

    Comment by Aaron Brown — October 25, 2005 @ 5:03 pm

  131. Aaron Cox is real, and he’s spectacular!

    Comment by Sidra — October 25, 2005 @ 5:07 pm

  132. Steve,

    Like you could ever satisfy Kurt!

    Comment by a random John — October 25, 2005 @ 5:10 pm

  133. LOL! Sidra, you are HOT! Love your new show.

    Comment by Anon — October 25, 2005 @ 5:12 pm

  134. Riiiight, none of the permabloggers is Steve Evans. The question is do you play the role of any of those characters, Steve. (Just asking lawyer to lawyer…)

    Comment by Perry Mason — October 25, 2005 @ 5:13 pm

  135. I’m glad so many tv personalities are showing up here to help out the case. No one can stop us now!!!

    Comment by Rusty — October 25, 2005 @ 5:36 pm

  136. I’ve never had my comments deleted before, but when I accused the latest post of being a metaphor for the blog, they asked me to stop.

    And then, when I protested, they deleted two of my comments.

    They won’t allow open discussion of the validity of the blog on their site.

    I guess that’s not really news, but they didn’t have to delete my comments.

    Comment by Measure — October 25, 2005 @ 5:42 pm

  137. The post in question was “Smile for the camera”

    Comment by Measure — October 25, 2005 @ 5:44 pm

  138. Kurt eats dirt.

    Comment by Goofus — October 25, 2005 @ 5:45 pm

  139. Measure, they deleted you? From what you describe, it sounds like you deserved it. We don’t want to have to constantly have to debate our own authenticity.

    In a way, I’m grateful to Rusty for posting this up, if only to provide a place for this type of discussion. We want people to come and visit, but frankly we want to get on with our lives and blog what we’re experiencing. I like your comments, Measure, but I think that discussion of how “fake” we all are belongs here, not at Banner of Heaven.

    p.s. if I’m fake, could I please be authored by Rosalynde??

    Comment by Jenn — October 25, 2005 @ 5:51 pm

  140. Sorry Jenn, you get Steve for now.

    Comment by a random John — October 25, 2005 @ 5:55 pm

  141. Rusty makes me lusty.

    Comment by Goofus — October 25, 2005 @ 5:56 pm

  142. I did have two posts deleted. I offered an email address but nobody wrote me, so I really don’t know exactly why my posts were killed, other than they were a bit off topic for the thread.

    You all don’t have to “Constantly debate your own authenticity”

    All you would have to do would be offer some definitive proof as to your existence.

    You have to admit that there’s a lot of seedy things about your blog. Aaron’s fake picture, Sep’s unbelieveable story, and other things that have been mentioned here.

    But instead of trying to convince us of your true existence, we get a parody post from Aaron, with no comments allowed.

    The fact that the blog seems to be killing attempts to get to the bottom line seems to indicate you are hiding something.

    If you want to validate my existence send me a gmail (my address is given to your website every time I post) and I will offer a phone number so you can verify me.

    That’s probably all you would need to do, let a trusted member of the bloggernacle contact you guys and verify you.

    Comment by Measure — October 25, 2005 @ 6:01 pm

  143. Measure,

    Trust no one! Especially trusted members of the bloggernacle. Don’t trust me and don’t trust Rusty. Especially don’t trust that sneaky Nate Oman.

    Comment by a random John — October 25, 2005 @ 6:05 pm

  144. Measure,
    Greg contacted me about our shared Quakerism. He’s real alright. Am I trusted enough?

    Comment by Ronan — October 25, 2005 @ 6:05 pm

  145. Ahh Measure — so you’re the trusted member of the bloggernacle that I should contact, are you? You didn’t believe Steve Evans, why should anyone believe you?

    We have nothing to hide. So far as I know, no other blog is subjected to this kind of crazy scrutiny, any no other blog has to open up threads ON ITS OWN SITE to defend its reality! It’s incredibly insulting. Rusty at least had the decency to contact us and offer to do this.

    Comment by Jenn — October 25, 2005 @ 6:06 pm

  146. Or was it my dead mother in the rocker upstairs?

    Comment by Ronan — October 25, 2005 @ 6:06 pm

  147. Jenn,

    Have you fixed your computer yet? I think that the google talk thing could help us resolve this more quickly.

    Comment by a random John — October 25, 2005 @ 6:10 pm

  148. no, I’m not a trusted member of the bloggernacle. I was offering a way to verify someone, and used myself as an example. Sorry I didn’t convey that more clearly.

    I’m mostly a lurker, which gets me very little credit in the nacle.

    Comment by Measure — October 25, 2005 @ 6:10 pm

  149. Jenn, and Greg,

    Aaron Cox and Septimus are obviously not real — so it makes us question the validity of everyone there.

    Comment by D. Fletcher — October 25, 2005 @ 6:14 pm

  150. Sorry John, my work doesn’t allow downloads. I can’t get it to work at home – does it work with dialup access?

    Comment by Jenn — October 25, 2005 @ 6:14 pm

  151. I think Aaron’s author may have slipped with the word “minion.” A real Aaron wouldn’t use a fancy word like that unless he’s encountered them in the scriptures, or perhaps common Mormon usage. Maybe it’s used frequently by Elder McConkie or something. Who’s diligent among us? random John, do you have a gospel database?

    Comment by Christian Y. Cardall — October 25, 2005 @ 6:27 pm

  152. FINALLY! Some REAL entertainment in the bloggernacle once again! THIS IS GREAT!!! :)

    Comment by Jordan — October 25, 2005 @ 6:30 pm

  153. I think Aaron’s ghostwriter may have slipped with the word “minions.” Aaron doesn’t seem to be the type to use a fancy word like that unless he’s encountered it in the scriptures or common Mormon usage—and “minion” is not a scriptural term.

    Maybe Elder McConkie uses it a lot or something; I suppose that could be checked in one of those gospel databases. (He did once say he has one of those expensive, leather-bound Deseret Book limited special editions of Mormon Doctrine. I’m sure it’s right next to his scriptures.)

    Comment by Christian Y. Cardall — October 25, 2005 @ 6:32 pm

  154. Oops! I though my comment didn’t take, and took the opportunity to improve it in its second incarnation…

    Comment by Christian Y. Cardall — October 25, 2005 @ 6:33 pm

  155. If the Bannerites want to prove their existence, it’s easy. All they have to do is email me their full names, Social Security numbers, and birthdates. Or they could save everybody a lot of trouble and simply email me their names, addresses, phone numbers, and credit card numbers and expiration dates. If that information was validated by a neutral, third-party observer–such as the Amazon payments people (when I make a large purchase of books)–then I will post confirmation that they’re real.

    Oh, or people could just send me money.

    Comment by RoastedTomatoes — October 25, 2005 @ 7:10 pm

  156. And Jenn… you said I didn’t believe Steve Evans?

    I do agree with Steve in the several comments he has contributed to this thread. He doesn’t say much to inspire confidence in BoH. Quite the opposite, really.

    I’m almost convinced that D. Fletcher is right and we’re looking at a blog that is a mixture of real and fake persons.

    Comment by Measure — October 25, 2005 @ 7:55 pm

  157. OK, here’s a crazy theory, just for kicks.

    Jenn and Mari are normal Mormon girls, if a bit naïve.
    Greg is a normal non-mormon guy who knows lots of Mormons. The fact that he happened to run into a Mormon girl and started dating her after joining BoH is a bit suspicious, but I guess it’s possible.
    Miranda has some personal issues, which have led her to be extremely defensive about certain things, but is otherwise a normal liberal Mormon.
    SeptimusH has some serious personal issues, but is using the blog as sort of catharsis, to get it out of his system without having to face any personal shame because no one knows who he is.
    Aaron has some very serious personal issues, but hey, I know people like that out there, why wouldn’t such people blog?

    It’s a wild theory, I know. But sometimes truth really is stranger than fiction.

    Comment by Eric Russell — October 25, 2005 @ 8:28 pm

  158. Hey, where did my humorous fake Nigerian spam go? Censorship!

    Comment by Bryce I — October 25, 2005 @ 8:31 pm

  159. Bryce I,
    I thought that WAS spam so I booted it. I also put the IP on the comment banned list. Is that your IP or what?

    Comment by Rusty — October 25, 2005 @ 8:41 pm

  160. Nope, Eric, dumb theory.


    Comment by Rusty — October 25, 2005 @ 8:42 pm

  161. I had a hard time maintaining interest in Banner of Heaven and couldn’t quite figure out why. I tend to mush around most of the group blogs but the whole “my husband got fired from the toilet paper factory” post just seemed too odd … as well as Septimus of the sweaty hands.

    By the way, as the post goes, I particularly enjoyed the spelling errors in the following passage:

    “Nate Oman, normally the most pretentious of the ethereally erudite T&S permabores, he takes on a persona almost completely the opposite: dim-witted, ignorant, and obtuse. But, the irritating arrogance persists, as does the terrible spelling. Hey, there is only so much you can cover up, or perhaps Nate is lampooning his own atrocious spelling in a self-depricating way. [Perhaps this is so. I just don't see Nate O. putting that much time into something so capritious. My guess is Ronan. It seems like the perfect project for him, something he'd love to write. DMI Dave Underhill is suspect as well.]“

    Comment by danithew — October 25, 2005 @ 8:44 pm

  162. LOL. Nice banner, Rusty.

    Comment by Crystal — October 25, 2005 @ 11:21 pm

  163. The latest Aaaron post is CLASSIC. So funny. But that’s the dilemma the authors have faced from day 1: either make it really funny, or make it believable. Of late they’ve opted for the former.

    Comment by Davis Bell — October 26, 2005 @ 12:54 am

  164. And here’s another clue for you all.
    The walrus is Paul.

    Comment by meems — October 26, 2005 @ 1:00 am

  165. Um, I think it’s supposed to be the Nine Moons Expositor.

    Oh, excuse me, Expositer.

    Comment by Christian Y. Cardall — October 26, 2005 @ 1:06 am

  166. No Ronan (or should I say Greg) you are NOT trusted enough!

    Comment by kristen j — October 26, 2005 @ 1:29 am

  167. It was Jenn who made the blog seem farcical in my opinion. No LDS young woman who claims to be as orthodox as she does would be so crude. Further it’s hard to believe that anyone her age living in Manhattan could be so simple-minded and obtuse about so many basic things.

    I stopped reading BOH early on because I thought the posts were poorly written, irrelevant and sometimes deliberately salacious. Given that, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the whole blog really is a sham. But, if so, it seems like a terrific waste of time for those involved. More even than authentic blogging ;)

    Comment by Anon — October 26, 2005 @ 2:20 am

  168. Naomi Frandsen. Case closed.

    Comment by Ronan — October 26, 2005 @ 8:21 am

  169. I am not happy. Not happy at all. You people can speculate all you
    like over who I am, but when you have the nerve, the absolute gall, to
    give my glory, laud, and honor to Kontentious Kurt, you have gone too
    far, much too far. You people need to step off or I will open up a can
    of snark on y’all. Don’t make me get the hose!

    Comment by Bloggernacle Snarker — October 26, 2005 @ 9:28 am

  170. Kurt,

    I can’t wait for that can of snark. I hope you shake it up real good before you open it. All hail the snarkernacle!

    Comment by a random John — October 26, 2005 @ 10:07 am

  171. Anon, Crystal, KristenJ, and the rest of you:

    OK, so there you have it, all of you speculators so convinced the Bloggernacle Snarker and I are one. I asked the BS’r to post someplace public on the Nacle to prove they and I arent the same, and they have. So, you see, D.Fletcher is right after all, and the rest of you can hang up your detective’s hats and go sulk. Wah! Accuse me of posting as the BS’r? Whatever. Ask Rusty to check the IP.

    Aaron Brown,

    You had better hope we never meet in person.

    Steve Evans,

    I guess when you have your back up against a wall you have to do whatever you can, and all you can do is lash out at people with rediculous accusations and flail away with ambiguous denials. If your hands were clean, you would have done the same thing as Ronan or J.Stapley or Rosalynde. But, you didnt. Nice work.

    Comment by Kurt — October 26, 2005 @ 10:08 am

  172. arJ,

    I would point out to you that you are a leading candidate for being the BS’r yourself. Why so smug and eager to point the finger at me?

    Comment by Kurt — October 26, 2005 @ 10:15 am

  173. Kurt,

    You have a good point there. I don’t think that anyone seriously considers me to be a candidate though. I’m not nearly that funny or mean. Heck, I feel bad when fictitious Bannerites claim to have their feelings hurt. How weak is that?

    Comment by a random John — October 26, 2005 @ 10:26 am

  174. Whoever the Snarker is, he is well versed in British slang and football banter. So, STRAIGHT ANSWERS please:

    Kurt and ARJ: have you ever lived in the UK?

    And I say again: Naomi Frandsen. Case closed.

    Comment by Ronan — October 26, 2005 @ 10:26 am

  175. Ronan,

    I have been to the UK three times.

    1. In June of 1998 on my way to Portugal to study I stopped over in the UK. I had to transfer from Gatwick to Heathrow.

    2. In August of 1998 on my way back to the USA I had to transfer from Heathrow to Gatwick.

    3. In July of 2005 I spent 30 hours in London. I spent a good portion of that time sleeping and the rest working like mad.

    Comment by a random John — October 26, 2005 @ 10:38 am

  176. Why are you saying that, Ronan? Apart from whether Miss Frandsen is responsible or not, why say anything?

    Comment by John Mansfield — October 26, 2005 @ 10:39 am

  177. ARJ (and Kurt):

    Last question:

    Do you like English soccer?

    Comment by Ronan — October 26, 2005 @ 10:42 am

  178. JM,

    She has just outed herself at BoH in the comments. Or else it is a deliberate red herring. But she is definitely wanting sharp readers to think she is involved.


    See link to her name, a link that all (and only) the “named” BoH bloggers give.

    Comment by Ronan — October 26, 2005 @ 10:49 am

  179. arJ,

    The T&S post by Kaimi fingered you, as have a number of others. You are plenty funny at times, and as for mean, thats relative. If youre playfully poking people in the ribs, the intent isnt to hurt feelings.


    Naomi Frandsen is Jenn, Miranda, Mari? Which?

    I have never lived anywhere outside the US, and dont like or pay attention to English soccer or any spectator sports for that matter. I think they are a complete waste of time.

    Comment by Kurt — October 26, 2005 @ 10:49 am

  180. OK, then that brings us up to:

    Jenn = Steve Evans

    Miranda = Naomi Frandsen

    Septimus = Bob Caswell

    Aaron = Aaron Brown

    Mari = ???

    Greg = ???

    Any suggestions on Greg and Mari? Ronan, you said Greg contacted you about your common Quaker backgrounds. Did he do that on your web page or via e-mail?

    Comment by Kurt — October 26, 2005 @ 10:58 am

  181. Ronan,

    What has drawn you to this topic? In Banner’s comment archives going back to May, your name appears for the first time a few days ago when you chided me and others for being easily fished. Then you’ve participated actively on this Nine Moons topic. Was your warmer/colder hint regarding my idea that we’ve never heard of the Banner writer just a detached observation of human nature? Is a gathering of fools discussing how they can show the Muppets aren’t real just too good to pass by? (“I think Kermit isn’t really a frog but just a normal person with his hand inside a piece of cloth. How can I prove it?”)

    Comment by John Mansfield — October 26, 2005 @ 11:07 am

  182. Kurt,

    The only soccer I have ever followed is Brazilian. That said, I was in Heathrow about the time that England lost to Germany in the 1998 Cup while playing much of the game a man down. Every TV in the place was on the game.

    Comment by a random John — October 26, 2005 @ 11:12 am

  183. Kurt, nice to see that your obsession with me continues unflagged, and that your spelling continues to be poor. Please see this link, and then please eat my shorts.

    Comment by Steve Evans — October 26, 2005 @ 11:20 am

  184. last one was meant for Ronan, not Kurt. Sorry guys.

    Comment by a random John — October 26, 2005 @ 11:20 am

  185. Wow. This is like a rousing round of mafia.

    Comment by Jeffrey Giliam — October 26, 2005 @ 11:48 am

  186. Puh-leeeeez, Kurt. Why the hostility? I’m sure if we met in person, we’d become fast friends, and you’d never tire of my interminable wit. Let’s do lunch sometime! Where do you live?

    Aaron B

    P.S. And be sure and bring your mother to lunch, so we can demonstrate once and for all that she and I are, in fact, ontologically distinct.

    Comment by Aaron Brown — October 26, 2005 @ 12:07 pm

  187. Steve Evans,

    Everything you do is simply delicate
    Everything you do is quite angelicate
    Everything you do is simply dreamy
    Everything you do is quite delicious
    Why can’t I be you?
    Why can’t I be you?
    Why can’t I be you?

    Sorry, but I dont find your ambiguous denials, no matter how emphatic, persuasive.

    If you like, I can send you everything I write and you can proof it for grammar and spelling mistakes, I have thousands of pages of commentary that need editorial attention. You clearly have plenty of time on your hands, running this BofH fiasco and all.

    Comment by Kurt — October 26, 2005 @ 12:10 pm

  188. JM,

    BoH’s rise coincided with my bloggernacle downtime, hence my lack of interest. I am only now interested because:

    1. I was roped into this by having my identity as Greg “outed”
    2. I’m bored
    3. This thread is funny and much more interesting than BoH itself

    Comment by Ronan — October 26, 2005 @ 12:12 pm

  189. Aaron,

    We can do lunch at the cafeteria at Inova Fair Oaks Hospital to save you the trip, its close to Dulles airport. Let me know your flight number and arrival time.

    Comment by Kurt — October 26, 2005 @ 12:30 pm

  190. Kurt, how is it ambiguous for me to say that I AM NOT JENN!!! sheesh. methinks you’re trying too hard. sounds to me like you’re not only obsessed, but involved.

    Later, snarkernacle.

    Comment by Steve Evans — October 26, 2005 @ 1:03 pm

  191. So, if Banner is fake, does that mean androgynous Aaron and Napoleonic Steve are lovers?

    Comment by Steve EM — October 26, 2005 @ 1:08 pm

  192. BoH’s rise coincided with my bloggernacle downtime

    Ha! Ronan (Greg) — you keep incriminating yourself more and more.


    Kurt – You need to add DKL and Ronan to your list. If you don’t you’ll be disappointed when they lift the curtain. (I like the Naomi addition (she was on my list in cahoots with Rosalynde all along). Not sure about Septimus/Bob though. I’m also still not completely sold on Aaron/Aaron thing but that has been my best guess so far as well.

    Comment by Geoff J — October 26, 2005 @ 1:13 pm

  193. BTW — Lest you think Ronan actually denied playing the role of Greg, please notice his actual statement.

    “I am not Greg.”

    Yeah, we know. You just play Greg on the Web, Ronan.

    Comment by Geoff J — October 26, 2005 @ 1:17 pm

  194. Okay children, no more personal attacks. I seriously don’t want to delete comments here but this whining is lame and I will delete if it continues.

    /being dad

    Comment by Rusty — October 26, 2005 @ 1:17 pm

  195. BTW — Ronan does have a pretty good alibi actually. It may be that he has mostly been goaded into looking guilty by “Jenn” or others at BoH… The mystery continues.

    (But I am tiring of guessing and of the game in general in all honesty)

    Comment by Geoff J — October 26, 2005 @ 1:50 pm

  196. 9 Moons is fake.

    Comment by Goofus — October 26, 2005 @ 2:53 pm

  197. Steve Evans, Blather of Heathens got put onto the BCC blogroll rapidamente when so many others are ignored, he must be involved.

    Comment by Stephen M (Ethesis) — October 27, 2005 @ 9:01 pm

  198. I’m sorry I missed all of this! But must comment that I like the Kurt theory for the Snarker since 9M is one of the few blogs I’ve commented on in my 6 months nacking and he (or she) thought I might be posing as Jenn at BOH (thanks for the compliment, whoever you are Snarker!) but I think Kaimi is another possibility (T&S being another place I’ve commented). For the record, FMH is my only blog home.

    Comment by LisaB — November 3, 2005 @ 10:06 am

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