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Nine Moons » Blog Archive : How Many Worlds Did Christ Really Create? » How Many Worlds Did Christ Really Create?

How Many Worlds Did Christ Really Create?

Don - January 12, 2006

The answer that usually comes to mind is infinite.  If that really is the answer then I have a real problem with that.  If it’s not, then I also have a problem with that.  Here’s why.

If it is infinite, what does that really mean, does that mean it is on going?  How can you at one time create an infinite amount of anything? My brain just doesn’t comprehend this concept. And if you have an infinite amount of worlds then you must also have an infinite of spirits to inhabit them. How does that work?

If it is a finite number then what happens when all of them go thru their cycle and become celestialized?  Does God start over with a new Grand Council and presentation of His plan?  A new savior volunteers from that group of spirit children?

Did God quit having spirit children after the Grand Council we were in?  That doesn’t make sense, but if He continues to have/create spirit children when do these new ones get to be in a Grand Council and make their choice?  Are these new spirit children associating with the previous ones who have already been to their Grand Council and been assigned to one of Christ’s earths?

I have some thoughts, but would like to hear if anyone else has pondered these things and or have any ideas, speculation etc.

21 Comments »

  1. Infinity can sometimes be a hard concept for the mind to grasp, but the alternative can be just as weird…does time ever stop? Does space go on forever, or does it end? Is space infinitely divisible, or quantized? For each of these, the non-infinite alternative may be even harder to grasp than the infinite one.

    If you are interested in “infinity” you should study mathematics…all sorts of weird things pop up. Go look into Georg Cantor’s ideas, such as the distinction between “countable” and “uncountable” infinities, or the Banach-Tarski “paradox” that says you can split a solid ball into pieces and assemble them again into two balls equal in size and volume to the original ball.

    Comment by ed — January 12, 2006 @ 3:25 pm

  2. I always thought there was a “council” for each individual earth. and I thought this was the only one that christ created. I kinda figured everyone had there own savior. but that’s just me.

    Comment by Sultan of Squirrels — January 12, 2006 @ 3:27 pm

  3. I was taught to not think about it too much…and you make the reason abundantly clear.

    The thing is, such doctrines where likely introduced without consideration for the shortcomings of thinking about logical conclusions.

    Therefore, the only answer can be: don’t think about it…god will reveal the truth in his good time.

    That’s never been enough for me. I automatically think: well, then why tell us such things in the first place if we’re not likely to find answers by thinking?

    Comment by Watt Mahoun — January 12, 2006 @ 3:49 pm

  4. Watt,
    your last question is a good one. For me, the answer is God gives us such things to 1) help me understand the magnitude of his work and 2) give me a taste of what I can learn/achieve if I obey His commandments. (the whole “if you keep the commandments, God will reveal the mysteries of the kingdom to you” thing)

    Comment by Bret — January 12, 2006 @ 4:04 pm

  5. The popular view in the 19th century, on the basis of the parable in D&C 88, was 12. Which isn’t to say he won’t create more in the future.

    Comment by Clark Goble — January 12, 2006 @ 4:29 pm

  6. Worlds without number I suppose…

    Comment by Ian Cook — January 12, 2006 @ 5:11 pm

  7. Bret,

    So it’s like this: here’s a crazy idea that makes your head spin…cool, huh? Now if you’ll do this, and this, and this totally unrelated thing and endure to the end, then you’ll find that it’s not so crazy after all.

    I know what you mean because it’s what I was also taught when I was impressionable.

    I’m just not so sure I want to spend my whole life doing stuff that seems crazy…all in hopes of learning that it’s not really crazy.

    You know what I mean?

    Comment by Watt Mahoun — January 12, 2006 @ 5:27 pm

  8. Well, if we take Joseph at his word, that God the Father became God the Father by atoning for a world, then it would seem that our council>>mortality>>resurection is a play that has been done before. Why not many more?

    Comment by J. Stapley — January 12, 2006 @ 6:15 pm

  9. I don’t have all the answers, but it helps to think multidimensionally about this stuff. You certainly have to dump the Nibleyite crap of a handicapped G-d restricted to the space-time of our universe, which doesn’t even jibe w/ LDS scriptures (i.e. faith in the Messiah, repentance and forgiveness by grace via the atonement in effect for all mankind from the beginning). Space, time and everything else are part of G-d’s creation. G-d is almighty and independent of His creation.

    Comment by Steve EM — January 12, 2006 @ 6:17 pm

  10. And to build on Ian’s comment, there are other verses that use a similar phrasing and yet are unlikely literal:

    “[The] Midianites and the Amalekites and all the children of the east lay along in the valley . . . and their camels were without number, as the sand by the sea side for multitude.” (Judg. 7:12)

    “With twelve hundred chariots, and threescore thousand horsemen: and the people were without number that came with [Shishak] out of Egypt” (2 Chr. 12:3)

    So, I am uncertain that, based on the Moses 1:33 phrasing, that Jesus actually created an unending number of inhabitable planets.

    FWIW, I wrote a post last year on the infinite atonement.

    Comment by Kim Siever — January 12, 2006 @ 7:35 pm

  11. Kim, (and others) if Jesus did create a definite number of earths to take care of the then existing spirit children of God, then does God continue to have spirit children until such time as there is enough and another Grand Council is held? Is a new “first born” chosen to be the savior, or is it the best guy wins the job?

    Comment by don — January 12, 2006 @ 9:11 pm

  12. Don, I imagine that there could be another council in heaven, right now, for another “spirit generation.” There would need to be a savior for that generation, and a God would be required to fill that roll.

    If you think about it, more than any other source, the Temple limits the scope of the atonement to this one planet. The fall was a possibility and in the instance that they would transgress the law, God would provide an Atonement. We know that the events of the Garden were not singular.

    Comment by J. Stapley — January 12, 2006 @ 10:39 pm

  13. Don,

    I think we’re in way past our depth here…

    For what it’s worth, I don’t know if it is useful to discuss how many planets Jesus Christ has made. You are making assumptions about the individual that makes planets when all we know is that “God” was talking to Moses in those scriptures. The voice of God seems to represent the unified divine persons that make up what the scriptures call the One God. So we do not know the role of Jesus in that process specifically.

    Also, we know very little about this council in heaven. I personally believe the concept is symbolic of the choice free agents must make between good and evil throughout eternity — not a big meeting as it is commonly represented. Therefore, we are still in the middle of that council right now.

    Last, I think that every world likely does follow the same basic script of our world and each has a savior. (The course of the Lord is one eternal round…)

    Comment by Geoff J — January 12, 2006 @ 11:29 pm

  14. I think that “first born,” “best guy” , and “greatest of all,” as descriptions of Jesus are probably synonymous in most contexts. See “Was Jesus Created First?“. The resurrection is one reason that Jesus is called the “firstborn of many brethren.” He is also the “firstborn spirit child of God the Father,” but I am not sure that this has to mean that he was literally the first of our Father’s children to become a spirit. I don’t know how many worlds he has created, but I believe that his role as the creator and redeemer of this world is infinitely important.

    Comment by Steve S — January 13, 2006 @ 2:47 am

  15. Geoff, you crack me up. Your statement that “we’re in way past our depth here” is the whole point. Obviously we are, because you then speculate on the answers the the very questions I asked. This process for me at least, brings new ideas to my mind and that’s why I appreciate everyone’s comments…like yours about the council being symbolic…I never have thought of that as a possibility…not that I agree…just interesting to think about.

    Steve S., Good thoughts, again I appreciate other people’s insights and thoughts…thanks

    Comment by don — January 13, 2006 @ 3:08 pm

  16. Don,

    Jacob seems to imply that Jesus is the saviour for those who are descended from Adam (inhabitants of this earth):

    “[He] cometh into the world that he may save all men if they will hearken unto his voice; for behold, he suffereth the pains of all men, yea, the pains of every living creature, both men, women, and children, who belong to the family of Adam.” (2 Ne. 9:21)

    I posit the question, does God need to have an infinite number of spirit children?

    Comment by Kim Siever — January 13, 2006 @ 3:09 pm

  17. Kim, if God has a finite number of children then His work will be completed when all of them have their chance to become celestialized. What’s He do then?

    Could it be a continuing spirit birth basis?

    Comment by don — January 13, 2006 @ 5:18 pm

  18. He’ll do consulting.

    Comment by Kim Siever — January 13, 2006 @ 8:08 pm

  19. Hehe… I didn’t say I didn’t like swimming in deep water Don!

    Comment by Geoff J — January 15, 2006 @ 11:53 am

  20. Interesting post. I’ll just continue to lurk here.

    Comment by kristen j — January 16, 2006 @ 11:46 am

  21. This doesnt even address the possiblity of a multi-world or a multi-universe where this world is duplicated millions of times over and Christ is savior for this one world which is actually millions.
    Someone shoot the quantum mechanic!
    Our understanding is severely limited in other words.

    Comment by richard — January 18, 2006 @ 3:31 pm

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